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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,712 posts, read 58,042,598 times
Reputation: 46182
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50 mpg since 1976 for me... No dinosaurs or toxic batteries required...
CVT as a mtn driver who tows daily, I HATE them and do not find them economical or dependable, or a great use of limited econo car power. YTMV
Manf Efficiency stds... when the GOV sets the rules, costs / reporting / infrastructure goes haywire and expensive. Witness CARB
I'm all for a KNOWLEDGEABLE USA energy policy (40 yrs overdue from our OPEC 'warning shot' across the bow of the USA economy)
Not so sure that Fleet economy stds will get us(a) there (who is ever going to buy a new car? not me not my friends, not my neighbors), probably better to be market driven and USA energy policy led.
Proper energy costs will drive consumer behavior for new car economy and for conservation and for the development and use of alternative fuels and transportation. The USA is very UNDERPRICED what the rest of the world pays for 'consumer transportation fuel' While we are pumping the underground reserves of other nations dry, we are not winning any friends, and chances are that by the time we want to use OUR resources, the USA will be too spineless or of economic weakness to allow the Russia's / China's of the world to come get our USA resources (we have already SOLD out much of our ENERGY resources (wind / solar / hydro / gen plants) to foreign nationals or foreign governments and / or their interests.)
Lets get an energy policy, THEN make plans to support / achieve energy independence. VERY possible to do in 5 yrs. (with leadership, honesty, incentive and innovation)
Proper energy costs will drive consumer behavior for new car economy and for conservation and for the development and use of alternative fuels and transportation. The USA is very UNDERPRICED what the rest of the world pays for 'consumer transportation fuel' While we are pumping the underground reserves of other nations dry, we are not winning any friends, and chances are that by the time we want to use OUR resources, the USA will be too spineless or of economic weakness to allow the Russia's / China's of the world to come get our USA resources (we have already SOLD out much of our ENERGY resources (wind / solar / hydro / gen plants) to foreign nationals or foreign governments and / or their interests.)
I hate to break the news. The only difference between U.S. consumer transportation fuel prices and the other countries is excise taxes.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,712 posts, read 58,042,598 times
Reputation: 46182
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
I hate to break the news. The only difference between U.S. consumer transportation fuel prices and the other countries is excise taxes.
Yes, of course, but those taxes change consumer behavior +/-
The proper pricing of energy for economic benefit of the economy / investment / growth / wealth can go a LONG way toward building a beneficial economy and environment.
Farmers / to end of product cycle delivery need to be in the proper cost structure for energy. Availing cheap fuel for soccer moms in SUV's is not the way to make progress.
Yes, of course, but those taxes change consumer behavior +/-
The proper pricing of energy for economic benefit of the economy / investment / growth / wealth can go a LONG way toward building a beneficial economy and environment.
Farmers / to end of product cycle delivery need to be in the proper cost structure for energy. Availing cheap fuel for soccer moms in SUV's is not the way to make progress.
This too shall end.
Fortunately, the market will determine the price of energy, not you.
OP, who cares about hauling cattle? People are driving to work and taking the kids to school. Oil and gas prices are a wildcard. MPGs equate to real dollars in my pocket. We all know auto makers won't make these changes unless required.
Because for a FLEET requirement if they sell one truck that can only get 20mpg they'd have to sell 5 cars getting 60+ to meet the standard.
As of today that means much higher profit margins on trucks etc. and razor thin margins on high fuel efficiency vehicles.
The argument that automakers won't make the changes on the own is partially true, they will if they can sell them but when gas a <$2/gallon like it was for decades there just wasn't a market. Basically the US consumer for decades after the oil crisis saw no need for fuel efficiency and instead bought SUV's.
Even so, back in 2000 I bought a small car that got 30 city/40 highway and wasn't a hybrid so it's not like automakers weren't making fuel efficient cars it's that people were typically not buying those but rather something that got maybe 20mpg.
Lastly, not sure why you're dismissing another persons work reality. They're most assuredly not hauling cattle as an entertainment activity.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,576 posts, read 81,167,557 times
Reputation: 57813
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie1278
It would take a drastic cost of gas to get me to ride public transportation. I would say if gas costs close to $5 a gallon then i would THINK about public transportation. Even then taking public transportation wouldn't save you much because they would raise the ticket price because of higher fuel costs.
I would cut back on other areas i spend in my life before i would stop driving my personal vehicle. Most people buy luxuries like $700 phones and eat out a lot and buy all these luxuries then complain about gas prices. A car is a necessity not a luxury. There is no public transportation where i live unless you drive to it first.
Same here, the nearest bus to my work at the hour I go is 9 miles away. Still, for many a car is not a necessity, if they live in a big city and have access to Uber and the other car sharing systems. Even then, a vehicle can be a significant part of a person's happiness, needed or not. With only two drivers, we have 3, because I prefer not to drive the Challenger in nasty weather, and like having a 4x4 truck for some hauling and off-road. In the past I have restored a couple of classics, and intend to do another in a few years, when we have room for a 4th.
Same here, the nearest bus to my work at the hour I go is 9 miles away. Still, for many a car is not a necessity, if they live in a big city and have access to Uber and the other car sharing systems. Even then, a vehicle can be a significant part of a person's happiness, needed or not. With only two drivers, we have 3, because I prefer not to drive the Challenger in nasty weather, and like having a 4x4 truck for some hauling and off-road. In the past I have restored a couple of classics, and intend to do another in a few years, when we have room for a 4th.
Uber still runs on gasoline, last I checked. Not many Uber cars are electric and even if electric, little power is generated by wind or solar. Buggering up the free market is not the way to go.
I wonder if the changes mean the VW "GREEN" diesels will again be sold in North America?
The problem was emissions cheating, not MPG cheating. So no, those VW diesels won't suddenly become legal again and VW won't be allowed to sell diesels here again until they can meet current EPA emissions requirements
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,712 posts, read 58,042,598 times
Reputation: 46182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik
Freedom....to use as much gazoline as I want.
yup, it's the 'American Way!', always has, and will remain as long as oil is traded in greenbacks
enjoy your freedom, someone on the other end is paying for it. (as always,,, laws of physics, laws of nature / environment) There is a price for every freedom.
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