Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's not like there's anything people can so about it. That approach benefits the shop owner with more revenue, and less labor to pay out, so it's not likely to ever change. I
That's the bottom line. The flat rate approach transfers all of the risk to the employee. From the business owner's perspective, it's simply good business. If employees don't like it, they are free to work elsewhere or pursue a different career. As long as there is a steady supply of mechanics who are willing to work under the flat rate model, it's not going anywhere.
Wow I can't believe more people aren't speaking up either way on this subject, flat rate is a hotly debated topic in the automotive world.
You have a very narrow point of view. Do you care about the review process for employees at Microsoft? It has a huge impact on promotions, raises, bonuses, stock options and historically has not been a fair process for everyone. Probably not because it doesn't impact you, just like how a shop pays the mechanics doesn't impact the people who don't work there.
That's the bottom line. The flat rate approach transfers all of the risk to the employee. From the business owner's perspective, it's simply good business. If employees don't like it, they are free to work elsewhere or pursue a different career. As long as there is a steady supply of mechanics who are willing to work under the flat rate model, it's not going anywhere.
But that's just it, more people are leaving the field than coming in and I blame flat rate almost completely. One day there's going to be a shortage of techs and dealerships will have to accept the fact that this bs pay structure needs to change. If you are in business, you as the owner should assume all the risks of doing business, not your employees, and if an employee is more of a liability than an asset then they should be fired, not starved out of a job passive aggressively.
I also don't get this mentality of "if you don't like it you're free to leave, but don't you dare speak up against it and try to change anything, because it won't work anyway so just give up" Again, people like you are the reason companies can get away with murder without so much as an unkind word because "if you don't like it, just leave" **** that bull****, shops would be nowhere if no techs would work for them, we need to take the power from the employers and return it to the employees, the backbone of the business. I can't wait for the day that shops are scrambling for techs and they all refuse to work flat rape, them they will be forced to change.
As a lot of you probably know, most techs are paid by the job (flat rate) and I think it is the worst pay structure possible and it's what's killing this industry and making people not want to be techs.
The feeding I'm talking about is the tech who gets nearly every customer pay brake job, nearly all the fluid services, and almost none of the warranty work.
That tells me the tech is a rather lazy mechanic who can't be trusted to do most warranty jobs.
I know a guy who is a painter, know another guy who is an electrician.
The electrician quotes out side jobs at a price, might take him less time or it might take more. Painter doesn't like to do that, says he charges by the hour and likes to "take his time to make sure it's done right."
They have both been in unions before.
Painter doesn't get much work while the electrician stays constantly busy.
Nothing can kill your work more than wanting to milk the people who pay you.
Even the mere impression of you milking them is enough to not get called back.
I worked in union shops/hourly, hourly independent shops, and flat-rate shops.
I made the most money and had the highest personal satisfaction working flat-rate. My customer service rankings were among the best and I had very few ... in some years ... no "come-backs".
But I left that environment to the ultimate level of personal responsibility and accountability by opening up my own shop. Every dime I had went into that shop to open the doors, and for years I made a very modest living as a one or two man shop.
It was only when I expanded the shop to meet customer demand and hired more techs/secretary/shop go-fer and bought more equipment, diagnostic gear, machine tools (we did our own cylinder boring, head rebuilding ... everything but crank and rod grinding/alignment) that I started to make an above average living.
My techs had a choice ... they could work hourly at a competitive wage and be guaranteed 40 hr weeks, or they could work flat rate. I did most of the diagnostic work on electrical/FI/engine mechanical systems as part of my service writing chores for the business. Over 35 years, the "best" techs I had always chose to work flat-rate, and I held all of my staff to a high level of performance. We did a lot of "verification of completed repairs" before cars were released back to clients, so those niggling little come-back situations were usually caught and taken care of before the car left the shop. And I was fanatical about car condition inbound and outbound ... I didn't want to ever hear of a customer complaint that something worked and then didn't when we'd completed other work. In 35 years, the worst complaint I ever got from a customer ... and it was several years after the event ... was that a radar detector left on the dash of his car was missing when the car was returned to him.
My guys understood that working as a team from time to time was essential to their best interests. Lending a hand for a couple minutes when needed was cheerfully given. For a more major project requiring two people, the 2nd guy would also clock in on the project and share in the billable time. I only had one guy in the shop for years who worked exclusively on his projects. He was my bench transmission tech, and he preferred to work in the evenings by himself to do the rebuilds with the parts ordered to be on hand for the work. In ten years, he had only one transmission not work properly upon installation ... turned out it had a cracked trans housing from accident damage which could not work properly. The trans had been to two shops before us who had never been able to get it to work right when the car was restored by a P&B shop.
I personally did most of the unit room work ... cylinder boring, cylinder head work. My guys could do an engine tear-down and come back the next day to have the component work done, sitting on the bench waiting to be reassembled. Welding work such as exhaust systems? I had techs who were masters, and I'm not good at that stuff. Brakes? we had access to a brake drum/rotor lathe when needed. Parts cleaning? I had the 3rd Better Engineering parts washer cabinet sold in the region; on those days when we had a lot of parts to be cleaned, it was as valuable as having another employee. My techs appreciated the convenience; they could be tearing stuff apart and already have parts in the washer getting cleaned while they did other tasks. (Even today, where I don't have a retail shop anymore, I still have my parts washing machines, ultrasonic tank (big enough for transmission valve bodies or internal parts), and even a bench-top ultra sonic washer for carbs and hydraulic parts).
Here's the important detail: My flat rate guys were taking home $50,000+/year in the 1980's-early/mid 1990's. The ones that couldn't produce to that level were down the road pretty quickly, usually within a day to a couple of weeks. And when times were slow and we didn't have as much work, some of them appreciated the opportunity to take a few days off to go play. For the most part, these guys today are taking home 6-figure incomes in the biz. They're sharp, with good hand and diagnostic skills. I call 'em "clever and wise", they've invested the time/effort/energy/tooling to work efficiently and effectively and are reaping the benefits of having done so. But all of us are aging, too ... I'm well past retirement age and my former crew will soon be in those years, too. Some are bringing a child of theirs into the shop, some are actively planning a generational turn-over ... and some will sell their shops when the time comes.
I still work today in both formats; hourly for some projects (and I try my best to deliver full value), but most of my real earnings come from "bid" projects where I'm working for a fixed payment for the project. As a semi-retired tech these days, the project challenges are appreciated. Given the disparity in earnings per project, I'd still rather work flat-rate even though I don't move as quickly as I did years ago.
PS: for those who are in situations where flat-rate isn't working out for them ... there are myriad reasons why. A change over to hourly pay will not necessarily cure the problems in management/favoritism/shop work flow type issues. There will still be a lot to complain about. But if you're serious, competent, motivated and dedicated to the biz, there are ways to be successful ... especially in view of the demand for your services. It will take effort, training, investment and a passion for the work. Intelligence, professional skills are needed. If you can't or won't bring all of these aspects to the table, maybe it's you that needs to seek out other avenues to make a living.
I know a guy who is a painter, know another guy who is an electrician.
The electrician quotes out side jobs at a price, might take him less time or it might take more. Painter doesn't like to do that, says he charges by the hour and likes to "take his time to make sure it's done right."
They have both been in unions before.
Painter doesn't get much work while the electrician stays constantly busy.
Nothing can kill your work more than wanting to milk the people who pay you.
Even the mere impression of you milking them is enough to not get called back.
I work for a lumber yard. One of our guys who does nothing but concrete hired a guy (not one of our regular customers) to build him an outbuilding. It was by the hour rather than a bid job. Everything was going fine until the weather turned and the concrete guy started spending his days at home. When he saw how little work he was getting for his eight hours of pay he told the guy he was shutting down the project for the season.
I kind of doubt this guy gets called back to finish it in the spring.
But that's just it, more people are leaving the field than coming in and I blame flat rate almost completely.
I blame the fact that working on cars isn't as interesting as it used to be.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
