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As a lot of you probably know, most techs are paid by the job (flat rate) and I think it is the worst pay structure possible and it's what's killing this industry and making people not want to be techs.
Here are some reasons I've found that flat rate is bad:
1. Enables favoritism and feeding techs
2. Enables service writers and managers to starve out techs they either don't like or who don't go along with the politics of the shop
3.Creates the concept of gravy jobs that pay great and **** jobs that pay next to nothing but take half the day.
4. Encourages techs to rush through jobs and cut corners to get things done faster, which normally results in butchered car (i.e. cutting or bending a bracket out of the way instead of unbolting it)
5. Selling work vehicles don't need (calling brake pads at 5mm because "the shop is slow")
6. Discourages techs from helping each other (I don't get paid to help you)
7. Lets dealerships unload their losses and slow times on the tech (Oh business is slow, well you're just not upselling enough on the cars that do come in, or Oh you didn't fix that car right the first time, well now you get to fix it for free)
8. Creates a cutthroat work environment (i.e. the shop favorite is getting all the gravy work and the rest of the guys get stuck with warranty jobs)
9. Undermines the value of the work techs do and makes customers think everything can be done fast and done correctly (which it can't in most cases, you can be efficient at what you do, but if your just slamming through jobs you're obviously cutting corners somewhere)
10. If you lose your ass on a job or have a pay with low hours you are simply told you need to hustle more.
11. If you ask for a raise you are told " you want a raise, turn more hours" and it becomes about quantity over quality.
Most arguments I've heard against flat rate are "Well if you pay a guy by the hour he'll just goof around and play on his phone all day and not do anything" My answer to that is talk to the employee and if things don't change, fire them. But the current solution to getting rid of a bad tech (which could just mean a tech who's just not fast enough) is to "starve them out" and make them quit, which employers like because then they don't have to pay unemployment.
I think flat rate was just a way for companies to not pay techs the actual time it takes to do something and just slap a number on every job to where "this can be done in this amount of time, every time, no exceptions" and that just doesn't work in the real world. Plus when they calculate the labor times they use brand new vehicles that haven't had a change to rust and experience the abuse people put their cars through.
In order for this industry to improve flat rate need to die and either hourly pay or salary plus commission need to take its place.
A tech's main focus going into a repair should be "How can I fix this car to the best of my ability" not "How can I rush through this job and beat the labor time"
I do work at a dealership but I am hourly and refuse to go flat rape (you read that right) because I've been there for almost 3 years now and I've seen what it does to both the people and the work they put out. So how about addressing my points instead of just making a joke?
P.S. I'm writing this at home on my computer, I don't even own a cell phone
Better yet require a basic automotive mechanics course as part of the licensing requirements and transform the maintenance industry into more of a luxury(with equivalent pay/costs) rather than a necessity.
Most of the shops that I have been around have a dispatcher who assigns jobs. Abilities vary and a transmission job will go to the best transmission man, front end to the best front end man and the best electrician gets the electrical jobs.
The flat rate times are set by the factory and are the basis for what is paid on warranty. Some states require the factories to pay the same on warranty as customers pay retail.
The tech has an incentive to buy good tools that will enable him to work faster.
Most of the shops that I have been around have a dispatcher who assigns jobs. Abilities vary and a transmission job will go to the best transmission man, front end to the best front end man and the best electrician gets the electrical jobs.
The flat rate times are set by the factory and are the basis for what is paid on warranty. Some states require the factories to pay the same on warranty as customers pay retail.
The tech has an incentive to buy good tools that will enable him to work faster.
The feeding I'm talking about is the tech who gets nearly every customer pay brake job, nearly all the fluid services, and almost none of the warranty work. Of course everybody gets some, but I've seen techs standing around with nothing to do while a brake job sits there with a waiter but the golden boy hasn't gotten to it yet.
The flat rate times are fine on a brand new car, and even one that's a couple years old if not in a super corrosive climate, but using factory times on a car that's 5+ years old is just not right, unless you live where cars don't rust (which I don't, I live in the rust belt). And the warranty times are a flat out joke, (e.g. to remove, rebuild and reinstall an automatic transmission on a Ram 2500 diesel pays somewhere around 6 hours, you tell me how in the hell that is possible for one man to do that?) The times are designed so that they can pay the bare minimum in warranty claims, whether the job can be done in that time or not.
I don't have a problem with buying tools to make things easier, after all, who wants to take everything off with hand tools? But again I'm saying speed should not be your primary or even secondary concern. Doing the job right and taking pride in it are what matter most.
I also can't believe no one has mentioned any of the points I brought up about all the flaws in the flat rate system. If someone could list flaws of pay hourly or a salary plus commission type pay scale I'd love to hear it. So far I've just heard the same old flat rape rhetoric.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678
Wow I can't believe more people aren't speaking up either way on this subject, flat rate is a hotly debated topic in the automotive world.
It's not like there's anything people can so about it. That approach benefits the shop owner with more revenue, and less labor to pay out, so it's not likely to ever change. I found a one-man operation that I have been using for many years, who charges for the actual time, and sometimes the cost is less than the estimate. Unfortunately he's pushing 60, so I don't know how much longer he'll be working.
Wow I can't believe more people aren't speaking up either way on this subject, flat rate is a hotly debated topic in the automotive world.
How many people here do you think are mechanics? Why would people care about what does not effect them. When people take their car to a shop, the only thing they care about is the jobs is done in according with the estimate. People pay money to have their cars fixed, they don't care how the money gets distributed.
It's not like there's anything people can so about it. That approach benefits the shop owner with more revenue, and less labor to pay out, so it's not likely to ever change. I found a one-man operation that I have been using for many years, who charges for the actual time, and sometimes the cost is less than the estimate. Unfortunately he's pushing 60, so I don't know how much longer he'll be working.
And with that attitude nothing will change. It's a vicious cycle of "why say anything, it won't change anything,and nothing has changed because nobody has spoken up about it" I just don't understand this thought process of "Don't bother saying anything because it won't change anything anyway" People like you are the reason that the world accepts so much BS, because people are either too scared or just don't care enough to speak up. And that's the reason why your attitude, along with flat rate, needs to go.
And yes flat rate can be changed. California made it to where you must be paid for every minute they are at work, and if you have to provide your own tools you must be paid at least double the minimum wage. So right there is proof that the system can change, people just need to do something instead of sitting there saying "I can't change anything and I'm not even going to try. I'm sure shop owners will figure out another way to screw techs over, because that's what business owners do, they screw over the little guy. We need to get it to where the employees have the employer by the balls, not the other way around.
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