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Except the obstacles aren't in the road until just before impact. I've seen animals off the road moving towards the road and adjusted my speed to avoid the animal as it crossed the road. I've seen children running towards the road and applied the brakes to avoid the possibility of hitting the kid. These are things I did to avoid an obstacle that wasn't on the road but whose direction of travel and intention would have placed them in my path.
And they will be able to detect and avoid these things far better than you ever will, they can see things you can't. Take a low level sensor for example that can spot some kids feet under a car.... They are going to have eyes 360 degrees going at all elevations.
I live in an area with a lot of deer and woods very close to the road, it's very hard to spot them especially at night. The problems here not going to be if the car is under reacting but overreaction. As i mentioned previously there is dog near where I live that like to run out to the fence near the road and chase the cars down the road. I know the dog can;t get out into the road but something like that will be difficult for a computer.
Of the already widely available pedestrian detection and braking systems, which are in many ways excellent technologies, you have to wonder how soon it will be until irresponsible people start taking advantage of that, especially in crowded cities, by just jaywalking all the time forcing cars to stop for them knowing they will not be hit. It will start with dares from kids, and then just translate to a wholesale dismissal of the rules of crosswalks and crossing from that class of people who already hold no respect for rules and laws.
It sounds utterly stupid to test technologies as such with your life, but we've all certainly seen exactly that stupid behavior, and worse, from the miscreants around us.
Mostly against it, but it's inevitable. At some point, a human piloting a vehicle will be viewed as immoral, illegal, and deadly. Future folks will look back and marvel at the "stupidity" of humans being allowed to drive.
Here is a quote of a relevant post I made the other day to a thread over in the science forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe
I love to drive. Or at least I used to. I've owned an RX-7, a Stealth R/T Twin Turbo, an '07 Civic Si, a Scion FR-S, and a 2015 Mustang V6, and I've driven a lot of miles in a third-gen Miata and a C5 Vette Hardtop. Almost all manuals.
Lately things on our roads have gotten so bad. Distracted idiot drivers more in-tune with some stupid smartphone than the act of driving. Constant, slow road repair and expansion. Poor road surfaces. Traffic / overpopulation locally that easily overwhelms the lanes available no matter the type of road. Overzealous law enforcement.
So I no longer much like to drive. And I've started to sort of think our robot car future might be something I can live with (I also like or used to like riding sportbikes and I don't think they'll survive in the future either, but they're no longer much fun except on the track either, but that's off-topic).
-------------------------------------------------
Enter VR. I've had my HTC Vive since April 6 and so has a good friend of mine. We do different things with it. He decided to purchase a high-end steering wheel and pedal setup, and a really nice gaming car seat and frame. I tried it out recently, and was frankly blown away. I played Project Cars, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, American Truck Simulator, and Dirty Rally.
You use racing games in VR from the in-car perspective, and what a perspective it is. Everything is in place and feels like the right proportion. I can look around the dash, see my arms and hands and legs (which react to my actual wheel and pedal inputs), look out the window, turn around and look out the back windshield, lean in and out, etc. The Vive takes care of all the head-tracking, the visuals, and the 3D audio (via headphones), and the gaming wheel and seat take care of the tactile sensations.
With the exception of Project Cars, everything ran at the Vive's 90 Hz refresh rate. Dirt Rally was particularly stunning from a graphical standpoint, but everything was extremely convincing at all times in all the things I tried. My friend left me alone to get immersed and I just left the material plane and entered this virtual realm. It was magical. Driving up the Pacific Coast Highway at a leisurely pace. Speeding around a small track in an old-school open F1 car. Exploring. Enjoying being there.
I drove in various vehicles on various tracks and conditions in various games for around four hours, loving every minute of it. I came away hugely impressed (and ready to order my own setup for my own Vive). Yes, VR has a lot of areas it will improve in but already my biggest takeaway is that THIS can be a replacement for the joy of driving that has been lost already and will be crushed eventually. I've never been a big fan of driving games (and I will never be satisfied playing one through a tiny flat remote window now), but this is vastly beyond anything I've done before in them.
One more note: the brain invents inertial feelings -- acceleration, deceleration, lateral force, etc. -- but it's not perfect. However, a new technology called 'vestibular stimulation' is being developed and has already been demonstrated that can simulate these sensations in the brain. It's probably five years off from being implemented in, say, the HTC Vive 3, but it's coming, and it will be awesome.
Mostly against it, but it's inevitable. At some point, a human piloting a vehicle will be viewed as immoral, illegal, and deadly. Future folks will look back and marvel at the "stupidity" of humans being allowed to drive.
Here is a quote of a relevant post I made the other day to a thread over in the science :
Really. Driving is freedom. Get in the car and take a sunday drive. Go cross country. Pile the family in and hook up the boat or trailer and go someplace for the weekend. check out the fall colors. the freshly fallen snow. Drive on the beach to go fishing or find a nice surf break. Go deep in the woods on some trail and pitch a tent. I can go on and on and on but basically it is freedom. It seems a few here hate freedom and since their lazy asses would rather be picked up by some appliance and let that appliance do their work, they feel the rest of us feel the same. The day it is illegal to drive a car ones self is the day this country isn't even worth living in. Might as well be 70's USSR. Can't believe people would want to give up one of the biggest freedoms we have just because they are lazy victims of technology. You know, technology isn't always good. It can destroy lives and country's and that seems to be what some of these wackos want.
While I'm on this rant I'll add that to these nut jobs they feel cars should drive themselves. However, small planes are still flown every day by individuals. Boats are driven by individuals. Motorcycles, scooters, bicycles. I guess those all need to be fully automated as well. you know, got to let the government protect us. Ironic that these same people envision drones buzzing all over gods creation dropping off and delivering packages. What a dark and depressing world they must live in. Why not leave the city occasionally and enjoy whats out there beyond the high rises!
Yep, life expectancy a wopping 25 years old as the typical house of the 2100's will have a moving conveyor belt leading to the front door and an elevator leading to the second floor. All conveyors, escalators and elevators will lead to the rented concrete grey econ box that can't be driven by an individual. Even those 2 wheeled segways will be used in house enabling one to never lift a leg himself to take a step. Eventually they will transform to electric (totally computer driven) wheelchairs with feeding devises as all use of arms and legs are eliminated and they don't function anymore. By the time our life expectancy has dropped down to a reasonable 12 years , arms and legs would have joined the ranks of the appendix.
Really. Driving is freedom. Get in the car and take a sunday drive. Go cross country. Pile the family in and hook up the boat or trailer and go someplace for the weekend. check out the fall colors. the freshly fallen snow. Drive on the beach to go fishing or find a nice surf break. Go deep in the woods on some trail and pitch a tent. I can go on and on and on but basically it is freedom. It seems a few here hate freedom and since their lazy asses would rather be picked up by some appliance and let that appliance do their work, they feel the rest of us feel the same. The day it is illegal to drive a car ones self is the day this country isn't even worth living in. Might as well be 70's USSR. Can't believe people would want to give up one of the biggest freedoms we have just because they are lazy victims of technology. You know, technology isn't always good. It can destroy lives and country's and that seems to be what some of these wackos want.
While I'm on this rant I'll add that to these nut jobs they feel cars should drive themselves. However, small planes are still flown every day by individuals. Boats are driven by individuals. Motorcycles, scooters, bicycles. I guess those all need to be fully automated as well. you know, got to let the government protect us. Ironic that these same people envision drones buzzing all over gods creation dropping off and delivering packages. What a dark and depressing world they must live in. Why not leave the city occasionally and enjoy whats out there beyond the high rises!
Yep, life expectancy a wopping 25 years old as the typical house of the 2100's will have a moving conveyor belt leading to the front door and an elevator leading to the second floor. All conveyors, escalators and elevators will lead to the rented concrete grey econ box that can't be driven by an individual. Even those 2 wheeled segways will be used in house enabling one to never lift a leg himself to take a step. Eventually they will transform to electric (totally computer driven) wheelchairs with feeding devises as all use of arms and legs are eliminated and they don't function anymore. By the time our life expectancy has dropped down to a reasonable 12 years , arms and legs would have joined the ranks of the appendix.
Enjoy your miserable ppointless life people!
Bingo. Your post is the voice of reason and freedom!!
Eventually, as we get closer to the point where self-driving cars become a reality, the environmental lobby will realize that many people currently using public transit may choose instead to opt for a personal self-driving vehicle. When that happens there will be a major push for expanded and enhanced public transit systems. We can expect the transit unions to join them in this push, as well.
Expanded and improved public transportation systems will likely find appeal with many of those who would be interested in self-driving vehicles, which will greatly reduce the demand. Especially when cost is taken into consideration.
Autonomous cars will still move forward, but I don't think there will be sufficient demand to justify any kind of a mandate, and without a mandate to drive sales there will be little incentive to bring costs down.
I used to love to drive. I was a car guy for most of my life, still read about cars a lot. Just don't get that much enjoyment out of it, for the reasons I cited. But I still enjoy it more (and pay it more attention) than the vast majority of idiots on the road more concerned about their social media "presence" while in the car.
I believe self-driving vehicles are completely inevitable. Time is the only variable. This will happen whether I want it to or you want it to, I believe. There will be a generation of humans who've never driven a car. At some stage carmakers will start to phase out manual / human-controlled modes in their vehicles. Society will shift, so that those who still want to drive themselves (especially in an ICE-powered vehicle) will be ostracized, lightly at first and then more vociferously. At some point governments (local, state, Federal, world) will have mandated automated driving modes for certain areas, certain types of roads, and eventually there will come a time when selling a car with a manual mode for use on public roads is illegal (not that many automakers will be doing it by then anyway). Finally, driving a car manually on a public road will be illegal.
No, if I had my druthers I probably wouldn't want any of this to happen. What I'm saying is I no longer derive the joy from driving that I used to, 10 or 20 years ago -- so I feel a lot has been lost already, and since it's [in my view] inevitable ANYWAY, I sometimes feel, when it takes me 48 minutes to travel 9 miles to work, that that automated future might not be so bad. 15 years ago, UH UH, I was enjoying the Vette, the Stealth TT, and dreaming about my next car, and was adamantly against all this.
Look, there are a lot of things about the future I'm not too enthused about, but I'm *powerless* to stop them. There's a difference between objectively talking about what will happen, accepting the inevitable, and actually WANTING these things to happen -- like the difference between the question "who do you think will win?" and the question "who do you want to win?"
Some people think the very concept of owning anything will disappear in the future -- that includes cars. I'm 42 right now, and I don't think I want to live past about 75, in part because the world that exists by the year 2050 will be something I'm completely maladapted for. People will think VERY differently by then. To a large extent they already do, as I know or know of a few teens who have shown little interest in driving even now.
So no, I'm not trying or wanting to give up freedoms -- I'm a pretty stout believer in individual strength and liberty . But I'm also a realist. Do you understand? Talking about something I think is on the way doesn't hasten its arrival or make me an advocate for it, just like ranting against it won't prevent it from becoming reality.
Now, you mentioned a sunday drive, cross-country, going somewhere for the weekend (we work weekends), looking at fall colors (nothing like that here), the snow (ditto), the beach (ditto), fishing, the woods, camping, etc. -- and I guess I'm failing to see how not having your hand on the steering wheel and feet on the pedals would prevent any of that. Granted, it does open up the potential for authoritarian control of where you can go or how many miles you're allocated, and many other dystopian ideas, but just ceding on-the-road inputs to the driving AI? Not really.
There also could be a lengthy period where it looks like the Schwarzenegger movie The Sixth Day -- when you're on a busy freeway or a main boulevard the computer is firmly in charge of the actual driving (not even giving the option for a manual mode), while for sedate residential driving and all of that "getting out of town" driving (country, beach, woods, rural interstate) the driving AI is optional. And track days may become more popular than ever.
Now to bring it back to the point of the post of mine that I quoted, I had more fun driving in VR the other day than I've had in a very long time in the real world.
I wonder if a self-driving car will have better gas mileage
Yes, they definitely will. They will not be brake riding like many fools do. They will use there brakes at a more appropriate distance. They will keep a steady foot. (If you have ever driven a truck, or motorcycle you probably know how to time the lights better), they will do that in cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlinfshr
Really. Driving is freedom. Get in the car and take a sunday drive. Go cross country. Pile the family in and hook up the boat or trailer and go someplace for the weekend. check out the fall colors. the freshly fallen snow. Drive on the beach to go fishing or find a nice surf break. Go deep in the woods on some trail and pitch a tent. I can go on and on and on but basically it is freedom. It seems a few here hate freedom and since their lazy asses would rather be picked up by some appliance and let that appliance do their work, they feel the rest of us feel the same. The day it is illegal to drive a car ones self is the day this country isn't even worth living in. Might as well be 70's USSR. Can't believe people would want to give up one of the biggest freedoms we have just because they are lazy victims of technology. You know, technology isn't always good. It can destroy lives and country's and that seems to be what some of these wackos want.
While I'm on this rant I'll add that to these nut jobs they feel cars should drive themselves. However, small planes are still flown every day by individuals. Boats are driven by individuals. Motorcycles, scooters, bicycles. I guess those all need to be fully automated as well. you know, got to let the government protect us. Ironic that these same people envision drones buzzing all over gods creation dropping off and delivering packages. What a dark and depressing world they must live in. Why not leave the city occasionally and enjoy whats out there beyond the high rises!
Yep, life expectancy a wopping 25 years old as the typical house of the 2100's will have a moving conveyor belt leading to the front door and an elevator leading to the second floor. All conveyors, escalators and elevators will lead to the rented concrete grey econ box that can't be driven by an individual. Even those 2 wheeled segways will be used in house enabling one to never lift a leg himself to take a step. Eventually they will transform to electric (totally computer driven) wheelchairs with feeding devises as all use of arms and legs are eliminated and they don't function anymore. By the time our life expectancy has dropped down to a reasonable 12 years , arms and legs would have joined the ranks of the appendix.
Enjoy your miserable ppointless life people!
I don't get what point you are trying to make. Once people have autonomous vehicles, not only can they still do all these things, they will probably do them more often. You will then have the freedom of everyone in the car being able to focus on the leaves. You will have the feedom to text and be engaged with something other than on the road. Sex is going to move from the backseat while parked to the front seat at 45mph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by duster1979
I think it's a moot point.
Eventually, as we get closer to the point where self-driving cars become a reality, the environmental lobby will realize that many people currently using public transit may choose instead to opt for a personal self-driving vehicle. When that happens there will be a major push for expanded and enhanced public transit systems. We can expect the transit unions to join them in this push, as well.
Expanded and improved public transportation systems will likely find appeal with many of those who would be interested in self-driving vehicles, which will greatly reduce the demand. Especially when cost is taken into consideration.
Autonomous cars will still move forward, but I don't think there will be sufficient demand to justify any kind of a mandate, and without a mandate to drive sales there will be little incentive to bring costs down.
So; Once they start to get more of these and expand into more fields it may be the driving force to finally get an interstate high speed railway??? I think the problem with your thinking, is that most people who use public transportation don't have the money for a new car. Places where people have the funds and choose to use public trans because its more efficient (northeast), there is no room to add more forms of travel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepenthe
I believe self-driving vehicles are completely inevitable. Time is the only variable. This will happen whether I want it to or you want it to, I believe. There will be a generation of humans who've never driven a car. At some stage carmakers will start to phase out manual / human-controlled modes in their vehicles. Society will shift, so that those who still want to drive themselves (especially in an ICE-powered vehicle) will be ostracized, lightly at first and then more vociferously. At some point governments (local, state, Federal, world) will have mandated automated driving modes for certain areas, certain types of roads, and eventually there will come a time when selling a car with a manual mode for use on public roads is illegal (not that many automakers will be doing it by then anyway). Finally, driving a car manually on a public road will be illegal.
That's tinfoil hat speak right there. These cars will ALWAYS have a manual option.
edit: ah I see you bolded the last couple of sentences.
So you believe there won't ever be a time, in any amount of years into the future, when automated driving is mandated in new cars and a manual driving mode is eliminated?
And you believe there won't ever be a time when operating an old-fashioned human-driven vehicle will be restricted to non-public roads?
I think you're pretty naive...
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That's tinfoil hat speak right there. These cars will ALWAYS have a manual option.
