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Old 01-25-2017, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,106 posts, read 56,712,890 times
Reputation: 18365

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OP, I have to ask, where are you going with this car? Do you plan to use it for the next couple of months and then junk it? Looks to me that's where you are headed?

You never answered about your location. If you are in heavy rust country like the Northeast or Midwest, that might be a logical course of action.

But if the rest of the car is in good shape, you are likely to eventually get coolant into the oil, maybe wiping out the main and big end rod bearings, essentially ruining the engine.

If you insist on using it with no thermostat, keep an eye on the water level in the radiator, and check the oil not just for level, but for evidence of water/coolant contamination.

You probably won't do this, but a way of nursing old equipment with failing head gaskets along, mostly this is construction equipment rather than cars, is to replace the water/glycol coolant entirely with kerosene. That way when it gets into the oil, it's not such a severe contaminant.

Honestly if the rest of the car is any good, just take it to a shop and get the head gasket and/or head replaced as we have discussed previously. This is one time IMHO where even taking on credit card debt, pay the $1000 or less off $100 per month if you must, makes more sense at least to me rather than ruin the car.
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Old 01-25-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
22,564 posts, read 24,353,783 times
Reputation: 20213
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
As a last-ditch desperate measure, I did remove the thermostat. It seems to have fixed the problem--I went on a test run which involved about the same distance and speed (60-65 mph) as going to work, and it remained at 3/8 the entire time, never once even flirting with going above the mark.

Just maybe--YIPEE!!

I do realize this is not optimal long-term (I forget all the details, basically it's that a car shouldn't run "overcool" it's not optimal), but it is MUCH better than persistently running hot within 6-8 miles. In the reading I've done this is a "Band-Aid" solution that you try out if you've tried everything else and it still runs hot and (this is the case with me) you don't regard it as a car worth spending $1000 on for a new head gasket.

From what I've read about doing this, it seems to be kind of similar to running a car on plain water vs coolant (assuming it's not 20'F outside), long-term 50/50 coolant is the way to go because plain water can corrode the engine and water pump etc, but if you're in the middle of nowhere and your radiator is bone-dry then you don't forego plain water and insist on coolant, you use the water to keep the car alive until such time as you can get proper 50/50 coolant. This is sort of like that, I'm only going to be going 15 miles each way, I have no aspirations to go on long 2 or 4 hour out-of-town trips with this thing, at all, and if it can get me by for the next 2-odd months or so (we both now have our W2-s), that is all I can ask for. When it's cold outside and I now have no heat, I'll manage, it beats walking or waiting an hour for family to arrive and hear them grumble about how much their helping us out is taking a toll on them.

One question--if the engine does run hot, the gauge will reflect this, correct? I ask because I have observed that if a hose cracks or comes off it will give a false "good" reading in the 3/8ths range when in fact it's running hot as snot. I assume such is not the case here, if by chance it does go to running hot it will indicate it? (When I checked underneath the hood upon returning home, it seemed OK, no engine knock no hysterical steam all over the place etc).


It really sounds like your car is a JUNKER, next phase for it is the scrapheap. Do you really care if removing the thermostat is not the greatest fix???? Your car will run a little richer and, well, of course your passenger heat and defrosters will be less than optimal.

You car will still get up to normal operating temperature most of the time. The thermostat is mainly for regulating the engine temp and getting the engine quickly up to operating-temp.

If you see your car heating-up into that temperature danger-zone, even with the T-stat out....you should turn on all your heaters to get that temp back down. If your engine-problem is not too bad, the
no-thermostat "fix" should make it run almost like it does not have a defective-engine. You will have to keep a close eye on your coolant-level and add coolant as needed.
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Old 01-25-2017, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
22,564 posts, read 24,353,783 times
Reputation: 20213
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
As a last-ditch desperate measure, I did remove the thermostat. It seems to have fixed the problem--I went on a test run which involved about the same distance and speed (60-65 mph) as going to work, and it remained at 3/8 the entire time, never once even flirting with going above the mark.

Just maybe--YIPEE!!

I do realize this is not optimal long-term (I forget all the details, basically it's that a car shouldn't run "overcool" it's not optimal), but it is MUCH better than persistently running hot within 6-8 miles. In the reading I've done this is a "Band-Aid" solution that you try out if you've tried everything else and it still runs hot and (this is the case with me) you don't regard it as a car worth spending $1000 on for a new head gasket.

From what I've read about doing this, it seems to be kind of similar to running a car on plain water vs coolant (assuming it's not 20'F outside), long-term 50/50 coolant is the way to go because plain water can corrode the engine and water pump etc, but if you're in the middle of nowhere and your radiator is bone-dry then you don't forego plain water and insist on coolant, you use the water to keep the car alive until such time as you can get proper 50/50 coolant. This is sort of like that, I'm only going to be going 15 miles each way, I have no aspirations to go on long 2 or 4 hour out-of-town trips with this thing, at all, and if it can get me by for the next 2-odd months or so (we both now have our W2-s), that is all I can ask for. When it's cold outside and I now have no heat, I'll manage, it beats walking or waiting an hour for family to arrive and hear them grumble about how much their helping us out is taking a toll on them.

One question--if the engine does run hot, the gauge will reflect this, correct? I ask because I have observed that if a hose cracks or comes off it will give a false "good" reading in the 3/8ths range when in fact it's running hot as snot. I assume such is not the case here, if by chance it does go to running hot it will indicate it? (When I checked underneath the hood upon returning home, it seemed OK, no engine knock no hysterical steam all over the place etc).





And yeah, if your radiator/cooling system has adequate coolant........it will submerge your
temperature-sensor in this coolant, giving you a good reading. I think you mean, if your cooling-system is mainly filled with exhaust-gases and air.......it will give you a "false" cool-temperature reading on your gauge. Just watch your coolant-level carefully and make sure to keep it filled, keep the mix 50/50..........the way to avoid problems with your situation is to keep your engine COOL.
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:21 AM
 
792 posts, read 2,857,872 times
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Wait, so if the head gasket is bad and that's where the coolant is going. And it's tons of coolant, because the OP says the overflow and radiator run dry after a short run. And now the thermostat is removed, so I would think coolant actually gets to the block more now because it's not bypassed when not up to temp, right? Then how long can an engine actually last just dumping coolant into engine? Just wondering.
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Huntsville
6,013 posts, read 6,590,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBPisgah View Post
Wait, so if the head gasket is bad and that's where the coolant is going. And it's tons of coolant, because the OP says the overflow and radiator run dry after a short run. And now the thermostat is removed, so I would think coolant actually gets to the block more now because it's not bypassed when not up to temp, right? Then how long can an engine actually last just dumping coolant into engine? Just wondering.


It's not dumping it into the engine any faster than before if it's a head gasket. It's not like there's a hole in the block that it pours into....


I do find it odd that it was losing coolant until the OP removed the thermostat. That doesn't sound feasible. OP, this is going to reappear. Take it to a mechanic or go ahead and prepare to scrap it.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:00 AM
 
792 posts, read 2,857,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
It's not dumping it into the engine any faster than before if it's a head gasket. It's not like there's a hole in the block that it pours into....


I do find it odd that it was losing coolant until the OP removed the thermostat. That doesn't sound feasible. OP, this is going to reappear. Take it to a mechanic or go ahead and prepare to scrap it.
Right, my thinking was off. I guess that sealer must have worked, otherwise the OP would still be running out of coolant after a trip.
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,106 posts, read 56,712,890 times
Reputation: 18365
To me, you know, if you have a leak at normal operating temperature, but it does not leak (as much) at cooler temperatures, this is sounding more like a crack than a failed head gasket.

I'm just guessing here, a proper fix, which the OP seems to not have much interest in, would involve taking the head off and at that point a failed gasket is usually pretty obvious. If the gasket looks OK, that's actually bad news as the leak is probably in the head, so it's going to cost a bit more in that you need a used or rebuilt head as well as a "valve grind" gasket set.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
22,564 posts, read 24,353,783 times
Reputation: 20213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
It's not dumping it into the engine any faster than before if it's a head gasket. It's not like there's a hole in the block that it pours into....


I do find it odd that it was losing coolant until the OP removed the thermostat. That doesn't sound feasible. OP, this is going to reappear. Take it to a mechanic or go ahead and prepare to scrap it.



It's actually very logical. The problem gets a lot worse when the engine heats-up......heat makes the defect expand.

I have been driving a vehicle with the same condition as the OP, for over 4 years. If I put the thermostat back in my vehicle, my coolant gets sucked away, my engine overheats and the engine-compartment resembles the exhaust of a steam-locomotive.
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Old 01-27-2017, 07:24 AM
 
3,279 posts, read 5,285,742 times
Reputation: 6149
Yes, like the last post said, with the thermostat active it loses coolant FAST and within 7 miles I'm in trouble. Done this way, I can go the whole 15 miles to-from work without going past 3/8th on the temperature gauge. Everytime I stop, once it's cool just to make sure, I open up the air bleeder screw and add water so that it's always "current."

I will say that I am still losing coolant, although less of it, wheras before it was boiling over into the reservoir tank, even then before it became a head case I could still make it the 15 miles. The point when I no longer could was sometime after I had to have the belts replaced, they broke off when I was nowhere near home and although I stopped frequently I imagine something became messed up engine wise in the hobbling I did do. That is what I mean when I expressed frustration at how things happen suddenly without warning, I'm like "you've got to WARN ME if you're going to do something like that." I can only look for signs for just so many things.

The main problem I'm having, not always but sometimes--difficulty starting it. One day it took 20 minutes to start, in my words it will "turn over" but it won't "catch." I sometimes have even had to use jumper cables because the battery became drained from trying for so long. It seems more prone to this if you restart it after having just shut it down, say when getting gas, when you are first leaving or if you're there longer (say half an hour as you're eating) it does better, it can be a bit reluctant but it will typically catch on. All in all I know that I don't have long, as I said if it can just get us by for about the next month or so that's enough. It's not worth putting $1000 in, I'd rather put that towards a $2500 or so caliber of a car that basically just runs.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,106 posts, read 56,712,890 times
Reputation: 18365
Quote:
Originally Posted by shyguylh View Post
Yes, like the last post said, with the thermostat active it loses coolant FAST and within 7 miles I'm in trouble. Done this way, I can go the whole 15 miles to-from work without going past 3/8th on the temperature gauge. Everytime I stop, once it's cool just to make sure, I open up the air bleeder screw and add water so that it's always "current."

I will say that I am still losing coolant, although less of it, wheras before it was boiling over into the reservoir tank, even then before it became a head case I could still make it the 15 miles. The point when I no longer could was sometime after I had to have the belts replaced, they broke off when I was nowhere near home and although I stopped frequently I imagine something became messed up engine wise in the hobbling I did do. That is what I mean when I expressed frustration at how things happen suddenly without warning, I'm like "you've got to WARN ME if you're going to do something like that." I can only look for signs for just so many things.

The main problem I'm having, not always but sometimes--difficulty starting it. One day it took 20 minutes to start, in my words it will "turn over" but it won't "catch." I sometimes have even had to use jumper cables because the battery became drained from trying for so long. It seems more prone to this if you restart it after having just shut it down, say when getting gas, when you are first leaving or if you're there longer (say half an hour as you're eating) it does better, it can be a bit reluctant but it will typically catch on. All in all I know that I don't have long, as I said if it can just get us by for about the next month or so that's enough. It's not worth putting $1000 in, I'd rather put that towards a $2500 or so caliber of a car that basically just runs.
Yeah, it's quite possible you blew the head gasket "hobbling" home with no fan belt.

Just because a car will move under its own power does not mean driving it is a good idea. A tow from AAA or even just pay cash would have been cheaper in the long run. The warning that the belt was going to break was that you could have seen checking and cracking on the surface if you had inspected it properly, or you could just replace the belts on a new-to-you older used car, since you don't know how old they are. Way cheaper than a head gasket R&R job.

You can buy an old car and then tend to the needs that a cheap old car ALWAYS has, for best financial performance DIY, or you can do what you are doing, and buy an old car, ignore the obvious signs that it needs things tended to, get your knucklehead brother in law to work on it for cheap and do more harm than good, eventually junk that car, lather, rinse, repeat, and lose a few grand every year or so.

It's a free country, you can take the path that suits you best.
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