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Come to California where our roads and freeways are in dismal to literally dangerous conditions.
With already the highest gas tax in the nation and our infrastructure in disrepair, the Gov is about to sign a bill to raise the tax yet again which is going to add another 12-17 cents a gallon to our already high gasoline prices.
This just pisses me off so bad because nothing ever gets done when it comes to our streets and freeways being properly maintained. The state keeps increasing taxes for random things, but we Californian's don't see the benefits of those increases. It's all a way for the state to make more money while potentially crushing the economy at the same time. What a wonderful idea.
The bill is also going jack up the registration fee's by hundreds of dollars a year for each person.
Politicians and environmentalists want us to simply start taking public transit in order to control us, so this a way to that by reducing the number amount of cars on the roads, when living in CA, especially SOCAL you NEED A CAR to get around so this mindset of our local politicians is borderline insane. You will never get Californians out of their cars, it's the way of life here if you truly want independence and job security.
Another big problem that I see locally in my area is when the gas/electric company comes out and tears up a street to replace lines, the construction for that is days to weeks or months at a time. Then when they are ready to pack up and go, they do such a ****ty job of repaving the torn up section of roadway that the perfectly smooth street that was once before, now looks like it went to war and hell at the same time, it's never the same.
I rarely see actual maintenance being done to our streets and freeways, and I've lived in San Diego for years.
Patch jobs is all they do, and it takes multiple complaint phone calls to the city just for them to come out to fill a pot hole. They never just repave a small section of it like they should. Crumbling roads is a way of life for everyday Californians, being the wealthiest state in the nation, with the highest taxes, one would think our infrastructure would reign supreme, but oh no, it's the furthest from the truth. The tax money isn't being spent on it, but the state has plenty of it. So much for the trust in our political system.
You have no understanding of road construction, or who performs the work for that matter. Contractors perform the work as quickly as possible. They make more money by getting it done faster than expected and less if it is delayed. They are usually changed liquidated damages if they do not complete before the specified deadline. I helps them make extra oeny if they can figure out a way to get done faster.
It is very rare that towns or cities perform road construction. Normally that is the State or County. Once in a while a town or city might have a few locally owned/maintained roads, but it is uncommon.
Road construction takes a long time, because that is what is necessary. No one is lollygagging. It is a much faster process than it was in past decades, but still time consuming. While paving goes fairly quickly, the preparation beforehand, and striping, testing, correcting etc can take considerable time. Maybe by some people's perception paving goes slowly, but given that every inch of pavement has to be delivered in relatively small truck loads, it moves along pretty well from my perspective.
Sometimes, things do slow down a project. Late changes by the state or county, labor shortages, equipment shortages/breakdowns, material shortages, traffic problems. They can make up time at huge cost by working nights and weekends, but that runs into all sort of problems that make it less efficient. Thus, if your double a workers hours, you will not get double production and over time, you will get less production than if you had not doubled their hours. Acceleration is possible, but it is expensive. Do you want to add 20 cents per gallon to your gas tax to generate money to accelerate all road projects for your convenience?
What kind of problems?
I have often wondered why they can't work shifts like factories and hospitals, etc. Morning, afternoon and evening crews......10 hour shifts can be done to include weekends.....all without paying overtime, only shift premiums. MN shift makes a little more per hour than PM shift, PM makes a little more than AM.
roads deteriorate pretty fast with freeze/thaw cycles. Out here they use pea gravel and tar to resurface the roads which makes them relatively nicer than areas which do patch jobs with asphalt. They do it as preventive maintenance when the new surface is only a year or two old.
I'd imagine in many areas people ***** about the pebbles but that doesn't stop em out here.
Add in increasing traffic density and the need to widen roads and it's a recipe for perpetual construction.
Throw in that water based paint the environmental nannies make us use that can't even make it through a summer before it's completely worn off and it's a recipe for ugly looking roads.
Imagine the same speed and efficiency in construction happening today, with road or rail. Fat chance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens
.. It is a much faster process than it was in past decades...
Note the construction of the Hoover Dam in the 1930s. Could that even be possible today, at any price, at any speed? What about the Golden Gate Bridge, or even the Bixby Bridge (since California seems to be so maligned in this thread)? Compare the speed and vigor of construction of the National Highway System, vs. construction of branching-roads in more recent decades. The criticism from the Right, blames more onerous environmental impact studies, regulation and the like. The criticism from the Left, is degraded working-conditions or the rapacity of layers of middlemen. I am not a civil engineer, but my layman's opinion is that as concerns engineering, construction and big public works, we’re just less productive and less efficient than in former times. And it's not just highways. It is spectacularly true for engineering and construction of airplanes (of which I do know a thing or two). We might be great at quickly churning out smartphones and laptops, but any thing big, massive, mechanical, solid - seems to take much longer now.
Our local city has a north-south interstate running through downtown, and an east-west interstate a few miles north of town. Recently, the intersection between these highways was rebuilt. I say “recentlyâ€, because it was already under construction when I first moved here in the mid-1990s, and was completed only about 5 years ago. Meanwhile, in the north-south highway going through downtown, there’s been a multi-decade venture to relocate off-ramps. Some had curves that were too tight, or branched off from the left instead of the right. After a phase of construction was completed, the local newspaper announced the second phase: to take 12 years! Yes, 12 years, for a few off-ramps.
Yes of course we need maintenance and we need new construction and we need to revise the infrastructure to comport with modern needs. But must we do it so slowly?
There's a stretch of I 35 around Moore OK that was under construction back in 08 when I use to deliver to the Lowes at that exit. Today the same spot is still under construction in the same place. Should it really take that long? It's only a 2 mile stretch. Almost 10 years that I know of. They may have started it before I first noticed it. That is a little ridicoulus to me. But I'm not an engineer.
Note the construction of the Hoover Dam in the 1930s. Could that even be possible today, at any price, at any speed? What about the Golden Gate Bridge, or even the Bixby Bridge (since California seems to be so maligned in this thread)? Compare the speed and vigor of construction of the National Highway System, vs. construction of branching-roads in more recent decades. The criticism from the Right, blames more onerous environmental impact studies, regulation and the like. The criticism from the Left, is degraded working-conditions or the rapacity of layers of middlemen. I am not a civil engineer, but my layman's opinion is that as concerns engineering, construction and big public works, we’re just less productive and less efficient than in former times. And it's not just highways. It is spectacularly true for engineering and construction of airplanes (of which I do know a thing or two). We might be great at quickly churning out smartphones and laptops, but any thing big, massive, mechanical, solid - seems to take much longer now.
Our local city has a north-south interstate running through downtown, and an east-west interstate a few miles north of town. Recently, the intersection between these highways was rebuilt. I say “recently”, because it was already under construction when I first moved here in the mid-1990s, and was completed only about 5 years ago. Meanwhile, in the north-south highway going through downtown, there’s been a multi-decade venture to relocate off-ramps. Some had curves that were too tight, or branched off from the left instead of the right. After a phase of construction was completed, the local newspaper announced the second phase: to take 12 years! Yes, 12 years, for a few off-ramps.
Yes of course we need maintenance and we need new construction and we need to revise the infrastructure to comport with modern needs. But must we do it so slowly?
We were talking about paving. Paving is much faster. Grading is also much faster. We have more powerful and better equipment,better methods, better management practices.
Building a Dam now involves more (better) engineering. There are also environmental concerns, especially in California and other states with really strict SWPPP regulations. There are also a lot more layers of inspection required. Much of it is redundant and they still miss things because they know they are redundant so many of them just kind of walk through and go to lunch. They have to find a few things to justify their existence, but it is not that uncommon the multiple layers of inspection miss critical issues while dickering over some trivial issue. Otherwise, I cannot think of something that is slower. Concrete placement is faster as long as there is a continuous supply of materials available. Todays dams are usually more complex that older ones were. More technology incorporated into them and more provisions for wildlife (fish) accommodations. You do not turn a big metal wheel to open a spillway anymore, nor do you toss a weight and a float into the water to monitor water levels. Installing those high tch systems likely takes longer. There are also a lot of redundant safety features. Every time one of those old dams failed or threatened to fail, a bunch of new requirements were added to new dams to prevent whatever happened from happening again.
In highway construction, a lot of the changes in construction time relates to safety issues. Curve radius, bridge support, drainage, lighting, signage. . . The amount of engineering that goes into a single sign is amazing. We pay as much as $1 million for one set of signs hanging over a freeway. Every time a freeway collapses in an earthquake, every time a bridge fails of a car loses control on a curve or puddle and runs into a school bus, there are changes in design requirements and thus construction requirements for safety. Anything that involves a bridge is going to take a long time and cost a lot. Ramps are usually just curved bridges. Those project you are talking about likely cost more then $300 million to complete. If the off rams have a different radius, they may be including the time for property acquisition (very time consuming especially if the property owners put up a fight). Also keep in mind, we are now building ten lane freeways instead of two lanes. Even many ramps have two or three lanes. Plus we now pave gores which used to be left gravel or grass. Lots of little things make the overall project take a long time, but the construction is faster, they just do more.
But straight out paving? That is fast. It was once an accomplishment to lay 1500 tons of asphalt in a day. Now 4000 tons a day is not uncommon for large areas of blow and go paving.
Oh and another huge impacting factor - traffic. Almost forgot traffic. Working around traffic is a huge issue for paving/road construction. They have a limited time to lay asphalt and roll it or place concrete. Truck gets stuck in traffic, it is going to get sent back. Imagine what happens when 100 trucks get stuck in a traffic jam.
We were talking about paving. Paving is much faster. Grading is also much faster. We have more powerful and better equipment,better methods, better management practices.
Building a Dam now involves more (better) engineering. There are also environmental concerns, especially in California and other states with really strict SWPPP regulations. There are also a lot more layers of inspection required. Much of it is redundant and they still miss things because they know they are redundant so many of them just kind of walk through and go to lunch. They have to find a few things to justify their existence, but it is not that uncommon the multiple layers of inspection miss critical issues while dickering over some trivial issue. Otherwise, I cannot think of something that is slower. Concrete placement is faster as long as there is a continuous supply of materials available. Todays dams are usually more complex that older ones were. More technology incorporated into them and more provisions for wildlife (fish) accommodations. You do not turn a big metal wheel to open a spillway anymore, nor do you toss a weight and a float into the water to monitor water levels. Installing those high tch systems likely takes longer. There are also a lot of redundant safety features. Every time one of those old dams failed or threatened to fail, a bunch of new requirements were added to new dams to prevent whatever happened from happening again.
In highway construction, a lot of the changes in construction time relates to safety issues. Curve radius, bridge support, drainage, lighting, signage. . . The amount of engineering that goes into a single sign is amazing. We pay as much as $1 million for one set of signs hanging over a freeway. Every time a freeway collapses in an earthquake, every time a bridge fails of a car loses control on a curve or puddle and runs into a school bus, there are changes in design requirements and thus construction requirements for safety. Anything that involves a bridge is going to take a long time and cost a lot. Ramps are usually just curved bridges. Those project you are talking about likely cost more then $300 million to complete. If the off rams have a different radius, they may be including the time for property acquisition (very time consuming especially if the property owners put up a fight). Also keep in mind, we are now building ten lane freeways instead of two lanes. Even many ramps have two or three lanes. Plus we now pave gores which used to be left gravel or grass. Lots of little things make the overall project take a long time, but the construction is faster, they just do more.
But straight out paving? That is fast. It was once an accomplishment to lay 1500 tons of asphalt in a day. Now 4000 tons a day is not uncommon for large areas of blow and go paving.
Oh and another huge impacting factor - traffic. Almost forgot traffic. Working around traffic is a huge issue for paving/road construction. They have a limited time to lay asphalt and roll it or place concrete. Truck gets stuck in traffic, it is going to get sent back. Imagine what happens when 100 trucks get stuck in a traffic jam.
Another plus for working all night and on weekends.....less traffic.
I'm curious to know why the moderator changed my post so much. What I originally wrote in a new thread before it was merged with this thread and grossly edited, and received at least one response from, posited the question:
WHY is the NSA keeping the road outside the gate torn up? It's had TEN+ YEARS of unmanned stationary construction trucks, traffic cones, jersey barriers, and the worst potholes ONLY ALONG THE ONE MILE STRETCH OUTSIDE THE NORTH GATE. TEN YEARS! Methinks the awful road is by design to deter uninvited visitors. And methinks the NSA might have a stake in city-data which is why the moderator will probably edit/delete my words again.
Portland cement concrete is harder and lasts longer but is much more expensive and labor intensive to build roadways with.
It also has a lower coefficient of friction with tires, even when new. And after a while it gets polished and quite slick. A layer of asphalt applied over Portland cement, then, yeah you are talking.
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What a wonderful idea.
