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In the big picture the Japanese luxury line hit the price ceiling.....the price point was getting to be where a German luxury car was! The bottom of the market was being eroded by Korean car lines like Hyundai's Genesis. Suddenly the Japanese cars were being seen as too expensive!
That is true. A friend of mine has a husband who will only pay $X for a car. They had a Mercedes S500, and of course it was problematic being early 00s, then bought an LS430, but needed to replace another car, so they bought an Equus, which was a disaster. The Equus was lemon lawed out, and he thought the Lexus was too expensive in the mid $90k range, without the executive seating package, as was the Mercedes S550, so he bought a BMW 740 because Lexus would not deal on the price, and comparably equipped BMW wanted to move cars, since the current 7-Series is not very popular. What's really funny is my friend will not let go of the LS430, since it's completely reliable, and she drives locally. It's interesting because they have a decent income, $1M house (DC-area, not a mansion), and own a Land Cruiser that will never go anywhere, but something is wrong when the BMW is the value proposition compared to Lexus, at least from the old order of luxury rankings.
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Acura lost out when they refused to compete with the rest of the world by building V8 or V12 powered large luxury cars. Their insistence to keep building lower tier luxury and refusal to build a V8 knocked them out long ago.
Lexus is still in the game with their LS and GS series, but even then, their top model cars aren't in the same league as the top model cars from BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. Mercedes for example, offers S class models that start at $180k+. The Lexus LS460 flagship, starts at ~$75k. It's just outclassed by the cream of the crop from the Germans. When you're building luxury cars, you need to compete with other luxury marquees. Mercedes builds cars from the C class to the S class based Maybach, which can compete with Bentley and Rolls Royce. Lexus' top offering is not even to the level of a base S550. Lexus is producing cars for people who want reliability more than luxury, really.
Infiniti... once upon a time, they were legitimate contenders in the luxury space. The first gen Q45 actually was a pretty good car, with a 4.5l V8 and ~300hp back then. But their ad campaign was... well, I hope that guy got fired and thrown out on the streets. The second gen was supposed to improve the car's shortcomings. However, Nissan screwed that up royally by neutering their halo car when they took the 4.5l engine and replaced it with a lower powered 4.1l engine, while also replacing the platform with an inferior one based on the Cima. If there's one thing luxury buyers hate, it's getting less while spending MORE money. Bmw, Mercedes... their cars are always getting more powerful with each new generation. If you want to compete with them, you have to UP your game, not take giant steps backward. By the third generation, they went back to a more potent engine, and an all new platform, but it was too late. Most buyers had already written them off as a legitimate luxury option. The final nail in the coffin was the M45 replacing the Q45 as the flagship car... when it was never intended to. The M series was supposed to compete against the BMW 5 series and Mercedes E class, while the Q45 had been a competitor to the S class. So basically, Infiniti themselves said they couldn't compete in the highest luxury tier, and went down market.
These are the only recent models I would want to own from these brands. The rx was nice but they killed that. The g37 is dead, the LS is a grandparents car (damn fine one though) and the MDX seems like a derivative of the pilot (still nice).
Overall Mazda seems to be the only Japanese brand taking steps forward these days. Honda and Toyota have flatlined in terms of ingenuity and Nissan is regressing heavily (maxima disaster).
These are the only recent models I would want to own from these brands. The rx was nice but they killed that. The g37 is dead, the LS is a grandparents car (damn fine one though) and the MDX seems like a derivative of the pilot (still nice).
Overall Mazda seems to be the only Japanese brand taking steps forward these days. Honda and Toyota have flatlined in terms of ingenuity and Nissan is regressing heavily (maxima disaster).
Aren't Nissans cars selling like hot cakes? And the Maxima is receiving top scores across the board. Not sure how they're "regressing."
That said, it looks like Infiniti is rebranding itself, if anything. The Q50 is the new G37 sedan. The Q60 is the coupe. The Q70 is the new M-series... They're not selling as well as the G did -- yet -- but I'm sure it's going to come sooner or later.
I see Infiniti as sports car brand (Q50/G37 series cars). I think it's branding itself that way. I don't think they have a marquee luxury ride like S-Class, 7-Series, or even Lexus LS. And if they do they sure aren't doing a good of marketing it.
Acura was off to a good start, Infiniti was practically invisible, and Lexus was accused of trying to be Mercedes with redecorated Toyota cars. Today Lexus is an established success, Infiniti seems to be improving, and Acura is practically invisible. It's as if Acura and Infiniti have had trouble defining who they are as an upmarket car brand while Lexus soldiered on with uplevel luxury and Toyota reliability. How did Acura, which seemed to start off strong, dropped off people's radars.
I dont think Infiniti has ever outsold Acura so I don't know how you can say that they've dropped off peoples radars LOL. TLX is competitive in its segment. MDX and RDX are some of the top sellers in their segments. RLX and ILX are duds though.
Acura lost out when they refused to compete with the rest of the world by building V8 or V12 powered large luxury cars. Their insistence to keep building lower tier luxury and refusal to build a V8 knocked them out long ago.
Lexus is still in the game with their LS and GS series, but even then, their top model cars aren't in the same league as the top model cars from BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. Mercedes for example, offers S class models that start at $180k+. The Lexus LS460 flagship, starts at ~$75k. It's just outclassed by the cream of the crop from the Germans. When you're building luxury cars, you need to compete with other luxury marquees. Mercedes builds cars from the C class to the S class based Maybach, which can compete with Bentley and Rolls Royce. Lexus' top offering is not even to the level of a base S550. Lexus is producing cars for people who want reliability more than luxury, really.
Infiniti... once upon a time, they were legitimate contenders in the luxury space. The first gen Q45 actually was a pretty good car, with a 4.5l V8 and ~300hp back then. But their ad campaign was... well, I hope that guy got fired and thrown out on the streets. The second gen was supposed to improve the car's shortcomings. However, Nissan screwed that up royally by neutering their halo car when they took the 4.5l engine and replaced it with a lower powered 4.1l engine, while also replacing the platform with an inferior one based on the Cima. If there's one thing luxury buyers hate, it's getting less while spending MORE money. Bmw, Mercedes... their cars are always getting more powerful with each new generation. If you want to compete with them, you have to UP your game, not take giant steps backward. By the third generation, they went back to a more potent engine, and an all new platform, but it was too late. Most buyers had already written them off as a legitimate luxury option. The final nail in the coffin was the M45 replacing the Q45 as the flagship car... when it was never intended to. The M series was supposed to compete against the BMW 5 series and Mercedes E class, while the Q45 had been a competitor to the S class. So basically, Infiniti themselves said they couldn't compete in the highest luxury tier, and went down market.
Lexus top sellers are the RX, NX and ES. IS, GS and LS are not selling well. A new LS is coming out later this year so that will help.
Infiniti has some nice cars though, I think their name change hurts them Q50, Q60 QX60 etc. Its confusing.
Lexus top sellers are the RX, NX and ES. IS, GS and LS are not selling well. A new LS is coming out later this year so that will help.
That's not my point. Last month, Mercedes sold 1,212 S class models in the US. That's only 4.75% of their sales, but it's their highest luxury product. The bread and butter market is their C, E, and CLS class, which together make up nearly 50% of sales. This is what the ES competes with. The "mid" market luxury tier.
The top models from a manufacturer are rarely high volume sellers due to cost, but that doesn't mean they aren't needed. Lexus simply has nothing to go head to head with the Germans at the higher price points.
AMG variants, for example, make up about ~5% of sales as well, spread among all the classes. But even though they are low volume, they generate a bigger percentage of profit for Mercedes than the unbadged cars do. Toyota has simply decided not to compete in the higher luxury tiers, about $80k is the cutoff for them, or about the equivalent of a loaded E class or stripped down S class.
That's not my point. Last month, Mercedes sold 1,212 S class models in the US. That's only 4.75% of their sales, but it's their highest luxury product. The bread and butter market is their C, E, and CLS class, which together make up nearly 50% of sales. This is what the ES competes with. The "mid" market luxury tier.
The top models from a manufacturer are rarely high volume sellers due to cost, but that doesn't mean they aren't needed. Lexus simply has nothing to go head to head with the Germans at the higher price points.
AMG variants, for example, make up about ~5% of sales as well, spread among all the classes. But even though they are low volume, they generate a bigger percentage of profit for Mercedes than the unbadged cars do. Toyota has simply decided not to compete in the higher luxury tiers, about $80k is the cutoff for them, or about the equivalent of a loaded E class or stripped down S class.
Good points. Here are the sales figures for Feburary 2017 for the segment that your talking about:
I think the Japenese will always struggle in this segment. A lot of people dont consider them to be "true luxury" like BMW, Mercedes and Audi.
Last edited by ma5cmpb; 03-06-2017 at 02:27 PM..
Reason: edit
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