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Old 03-17-2017, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,806 posts, read 15,242,812 times
Reputation: 4502

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Quote:
Originally Posted by supton View Post
Assault is too strong. They merely removed the incentives. Now the state is treating them like any other vehicle.
Except for the higher registration fees. That's not treating them like any other vehicle.

I can understand the removal of incentives and those who say EVs should be able to compete without those.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Texas
3,251 posts, read 2,531,454 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
Never get behind a electric car, you never know when the battery is going to go dead.
Yes you do, there's a gauge that tells you when it's going to run out of energy.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,806 posts, read 15,242,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post

Electric vehicle buyers, should not get subsidies, so they can buy them cheaper. Let the buyers pay their own way, and they should be taxed to use the highways and road system, just as gas powered vehicle owners are to be fair to all.
I think the tax should be based on miles driven, not a flat registration fee (tax) of $100, $200 or whatever.

We drive our vehicle about 250 miles/ month. That equals about $18 or so in state gasoline taxes per year. If an EV fee/tax is meant to replace what is lost due to an EV owner not buying gasoline, then an equivalent amount in registration fees is fair.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,806 posts, read 15,242,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Well, the state is not collecting any money from electric car users in the form of gasoline tax. How do you expect them to pay for the roads that are used by electric cars?
If the purpose is to replace what is lost in gas taxes then I'm ok with a tax/fee on EVs that equal what would otherwise be collected in the form of gasoline taxes. Why should the fee be 10 times what I typically spend per year in state gas tax?
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Victory Mansions, Airstrip One
6,657 posts, read 4,947,967 times
Reputation: 8990
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Let the buyers pay their own way, and they should be taxed to use the highways and road system, just as gas powered vehicle owners are to be fair to all.

Seems a little premature to get too worked up about this one. EVs are a miniscule fraction of cars on the road today. And fuel taxes pay way less than 100% of highway costs anyway. I've seem some estimates that say tolls plus gas/fuel taxes cover about 1/3 the cost of building and maintain roads and highways. So everyone that pays income taxes is contributing to highway maintenance, even if they never leave the house.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:31 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,811,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
So to be fair, why shouldn't there be a higher tax on energy efficient appliances?
The fuel or efficiency of the vehicle is irrelevant to road costs, a 4000 pound electric vehicle does just just as much damage to the road as a gasoline one.

If you are charging them $200 on average a 4000 pound electric vehicle would not be paying any more compared to the same sized gasoline vehicle unless it was driven less than 9000 miles. Anything more than 9000 and they are paying less.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:42 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,811,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
Except for the higher registration fees. That's not treating them like any other vehicle.
Again the issue is the fuel tax they are not paying used to build and maintain roads. This really has nothing to do with the type of fuel other than one is not being taxed. On average a mid sized gasoline powered sedan is paying about 2.2 cents per mile in both federal and state taxes. The electric car pays $0.

Look at it this way,if everyone started driving an electric car tomorrow the primary revenue stream that builds and maintains roads is now $0.

Last edited by thecoalman; 03-17-2017 at 11:01 PM..
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:59 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,811,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
Why should the fee be 10 times what I typically spend per year in state gas tax?
Based on a $200 additional charge it's hardly 10 times unless you are only driving a 1 or 2 thousands miles per year. It's less if you drive a lot.....

I can understand you complaint if you don't drive much, as I mentioned previously the fairest way to do this is using a formula based on the weight of the vehicle and the miles it is driven.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:35 PM
 
Location: West Des Moines
1,269 posts, read 1,224,195 times
Reputation: 1706
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
In the LA area the electric company advertises to run your washer and dryer in the evening and turn the air conditioner down to save electricity. How are they going to charge up millions of cars.
They are not. And the State of California blocks or discourages importing electricity from neighboring states, if that electricity is produced by coal-fired power plants. So expect more rolling blackouts in the future, even if there is no growth in electric-car sales.
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:45 AM
 
4,361 posts, read 7,140,855 times
Reputation: 4866
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperL View Post
Pretty simple folks, in 2015, we imported over 75,000,000 megawatt hours of electricity from Canada and Mexico. That's LOTS of juice.
We import the electricity because we can do it cheaply, not because we have to. Electricity is a commodity. The dollar is very strong against the Canadian dollar and, especially, the peso. Electricity is a unique commodity as it can be generated using multiple energy sources (coal/NG steam, NG turbine, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, etc.) and in multiple places. If you can buy it for less than it costs you to generate it, that's exactly what you do.

Quote:
Electric cars as we have them now are just plain a stupid use of resources. Someday, maybe they might be a viable mode of transportation, but not today. Strangely though, all of the folks in the know think that diesel electric is the future. It doesn't take a huge diesel engine to turn a generator big enough to drive your car.
No. Quite simply, electric cars are limited by the current storage battery technology. All diesel-electric hybrid vehicles are really doing is replacing the battery with a diesel generator. The generator is run at peak efficiency with regards to engine-to-generator output. The much more efficient, predictable and controllable electric motor is used to actually drive the vehicle. The diesel engine/generator combination can be replaced by any suitable energy source, such as a battery or fuel cell.

Quote:
What you will give up though is the massive horsepower and fast cars. Are you ready for that? Most aren't.
This isn't even close to being true. The torque curve and overall efficiency of an electric motor is ideal and in every way outclasses an IC engine of similar output. The torque generated by an electric motor is a function of the electrical current running through it -- it can effectively develop full torque with no rotation (often referred to as holding torque). It can maintain that torque through the entirety of its speed curve. An IC engine doesn't develop full torque until it is rotating at a high frequency. An IC engine is only about 30% as efficient as an electric motor on its best day running at the same output level.
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