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Why do we need a large military to secure cobalt and lithium when these and all commodities are available on the free market? Or are we to become as Rome and steal the commodities we need?
Global trade works great whether you have a large military or not. It's not like we need to invade countries to set up trading agreements with them. Somehow every single other country (Russia, China, and India included) in the world seems to get it done without annually bankrupting themselves.
Hence why we're still in Afghanistan... huge lithium vane was found there.
There's your smart phone batteries, laptop batteries, cordless tool batteries and Tesla batteries.
Why pay fair market value when you can get Haliburton mining and shipping it back for a fraction of the cost. Think about that for a minute.
Say Tesla was as big and successful as GM or Ford, pumping a half a million to million vehicles per year out of their factories... Where is the lithium coming from?
When demands rise so too does the price.
Next practical question is. What to do with junk batteries? How much will it cost to "safely" process the waste. How much will that cost. Where does it get burried? Is Musk going to use his re-usable rockets to put that crap on the moon? Launch it into the sun?
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
2,254 posts, read 2,739,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87
Hence why we're still in Afghanistan... huge lithium vane was found there.
There's your smart phone batteries, laptop batteries, cordless tool batteries and Tesla batteries.
Why pay fair market value when you can get Haliburton mining and shipping it back for a fraction of the cost. Think about that for a minute.
Say Tesla was as big and successful as GM or Ford, pumping a half a million to million vehicles per year out of their factories... Where is the lithium coming from?
When demands rise so too does the price.
Next practical question is. What to do with junk batteries? How much will it cost to "safely" process the waste. How much will that cost. Where does it get burried? Is Musk going to use his re-usable rockets to put that crap on the moon? Launch it into the sun?
Yeah - i'm not sure if you understand how commodity pricing works. Halliburton doesn't mine and sell something at a discount.
And yes, lithium prices will rise with demand. And that will spur further innovation to find a better way to build batteries.
Regarding 'junk' batteries, given the value they will be down-cycled from automotive to storage, and then recycled. Who wants to throw these things away?
Yeah - i'm not sure if you understand how commodity pricing works. Halliburton doesn't mine and sell something at a discount.
And yes, lithium prices will rise with demand. And that will spur further innovation to find a better way to build batteries.
Regarding 'junk' batteries, given the value they will be down-cycled from automotive to storage, and then recycled. Who wants to throw these things away?
Hmm...
Nasa uses plutonium for batteries.... hear it's expensive stuff but last a while.
I'm not sure you understand how toxic lithium is or how costly it is to recycle...
It's not like popping a battery drain the acid and smelt the lead to be recycled...
Quote:
Recycled lithium is as much as five times the cost of lithium produced from the least costly brine based process. It is not competitive for recycling companies to extract lithium from slag, or competitive for the OEMs to buy at higher price points from recycling companies. Though lithium is 100% recyclable, currently, recycled lithium reports to the slag and is currently used for non-automotive purposes, such as construction, or sold in the open-markets. However, with the increasing number of EVs entering the market in the future and with a significant supply crunch, recycling is expected to be an important factor for consideration in effective material supply for battery production.
The impact they're making is negligible. Takes more in fossil fuels to mine and process and recharge the things than what they were set out to replace.
On paper seems like a great idea... in practicality it isnt.
I'd be more focused on developing a cost effective way to convert water into hydrogen gas and have that power an internal combustion engine before I'd go mining lithium for an electric vehicle...
But that's just me...
Why do we need a large military to secure cobalt and lithium when these and all commodities are available on the free market? Or are we to become as Rome and steal the commodities we need?
Global trade works great whether you have a large military or not. It's not like we need to invade countries to set up trading agreements with them. Somehow every single other country (Russia, China, and India included) in the world seems to get it done without annually bankrupting themselves.
You're answering your question. Oil imports is not the reason we have a large military, so it's unfair to lump the cost of the entire department of defense in as "oil subsidy". That's just a strawman that EV enthusiast use to defend EV subsidies.
Considering everything from lithium mining to Tesla's mobile repair vans arrives by fossil fuel, lack of any kind of oil subsidy would make the cost of living "carbon free" far more expensive than it already is.
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
2,254 posts, read 2,739,837 times
Reputation: 3203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100
You're answering your question. Oil imports is not the reason we have a large military, so it's unfair to lump the cost of the entire department of defense in as "oil subsidy". That's just a strawman that EV enthusiast use to defend EV subsidies.
Considering everything from lithium mining to Tesla's mobile repair vans arrives by fossil fuel, lack of any kind of oil subsidy would make the cost of living "carbon free" far more expensive than it already is.
Absolutely - so why do we have it? It is an unneeded cost that we are all paying. One of the best things this fiscal conservative believes would benefit our country is greatly scaling back this legacy burden from the cold war military industrial complex.
Absolutely - so why do we have it? It is an unneeded cost that we are all paying. One of the best things this fiscal conservative believes would benefit our country is greatly scaling back this legacy burden from the cold war military industrial complex.
Good luck with that idea while groups like ISIS keeps popping up and North Korea openly discusses attacking the US mainland. Russia isn't scaling back their military anytime soon. China is asserting more control over international waters and encroaching on our allies.
Norway might be getting away with free defense in the form of NATO, but its a gamble they seem comfortable with. Last time they banked on their neighbors for protection they were taken over by Nazis. It's like saying "I don't need an expensive security system, because I only get taken hostage in my own house every now and then."
There's other financial benefits to having a huge military that help offset its cost. For one, defense contracts largely rely on American companies and American labor. Those companies and people all pay taxes and support the economy. They spend money on R&D which then trickles down to commercial uses. Carbon fiber for example started off in military programs. So in other words $1B in defense spending might actually end up costing $600M.
Either way, the military is clearly not an oil subsidy.
Think it could happen? I think it misses the fact that many people don't have off street parking, that many of us need (even if its just occasional) range beyond what Electrics can provide today.
UK is doing the same thing as France is doing. I believe it's because of pollution problems. I assume they are going to be replace by electric vehicles by then.
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