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Old 09-14-2017, 04:16 AM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,671,558 times
Reputation: 22078

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
My best friends Tesla x gets nearly 300 miles on a charge and charges in bout half an hour at the supercharger on the major highways including Florida. And they are free. How is that significantly different than a gas powered car in a situation like this?
Problem, a large portion of Florida as an example, has no power to recharge the batteries.

Here in Montana the Department of Motor Vehicles declared not one Tesla registered in Montana. Here they are almost useless. When the weather turns cold and some ice, the range drops by 60%. Going up and down mountains, and hills, takes a lot of the range out of the car. Using heat, takes out a lot more. It gets so bad when all figured in, half the year, we could not go shopping the 50 miles or 90 miles each way without having to find a recharge station. I have only seen a couple of Prius, driven by tourists in the summer time.

The electric car, is made for local transportation and to run around cities. Not out in the real world a lot of the nation lives with. Out where the towns of any size, can be 150 miles apart.

On the other hand, we don't have to worry about things like Hurricanes, and other things that cause mass evacuation. Some areas have had to evacuate due to wilderness fires caused mostly by lightening. One was caused by a big bird catching a large snake for lunch and letting it dangle going over power lines causing a transformer to blow, which cause a fire that burned 10s of thousands of acres (official cause).

In this part of the country, go to a parking lot and you will see that about 3/4ths of the vehicles with Montana license plates being Medium to Large SUVs, and 4 Door Pickups. It is nothing to see some little tiny 16 year old girl, climb into and drive out of there in a big 4-door Diesel Heavy Hauler Pickup. And these decked out vehicles cost more than a lot of those luxury cars and sports cars city dwellers drive. Here is our Explorer as equipped which is as small a vehicle I want to drive in the wintertime. Here our doctors and business execs. and their wives drive the normal vehicle of our area, just the more expensive and larger models. In the winter, we use heavy tread studded snow tires, to get around. We are not effected by chain laws where everyone has to chain up, except if driving a 4 wheel drive with good studded snow tires. They go back on the end of this month.

Here is our SUV and how it is equipped. Of course, it has the extras on the 4X4 drive, which makes it a better and more controllable vehicle when the snow and ice get deep going up and down mountains. Dial in snow and ice, and going down hill push to down hill control, and it goes where a normal 4X4 gets into trouble.

2017 Ford Explorer - Build & Price

Our other car is a Ford F-150 pickup.

As we are 85 me and my wife 87, so these will probably be the last vehicles we will ever buy, as they both will outlast our lifetimes with no more mileage than we put on them. I don't drive 30,000 per year like I did back in my Real Estate Investment Brokerage days often involved in multiple state multiple property exchanges.
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Old 09-14-2017, 04:37 AM
 
79,899 posts, read 43,855,613 times
Reputation: 17179
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Problem, a large portion of Florida as an example, has no power to recharge the batteries.

Here in Montana the Department of Motor Vehicles declared not one Tesla registered in Montana. Here they are almost useless. When the weather turns cold and some ice, the range drops by 60%. Going up and down mountains, and hills, takes a lot of the range out of the car. Using heat, takes out a lot more. It gets so bad when all figured in, half the year, we could not go shopping the 50 miles or 90 miles each way without having to find a recharge station. I have only seen a couple of Prius, driven by tourists in the summer time.
A Prius operates on gas and yes, a Tesla can make a 100-180 mile round trip in the winter.

Quote:
The electric car, is made for local transportation and to run around cities. Not out in the real world a lot of the nation lives with. Out where the towns of any size, can be 150 miles apart.
Very few live where towns are 150 miles apart. Tesla makes all wheel drive vehicles.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:15 AM
 
Location: North Texas
3,391 posts, read 2,587,240 times
Reputation: 10851
With all the warning of an approaching hurricane the Tesla owner would have driven the car to a multilevel parking garage and parked on the covered second floor. He would have a taxi take him to the airport and taken a vacation in San Francisco. He would not have waited for the last day or two to evacuate, as so many smart people in Florida.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:40 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,627,693 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
And yet, people did do it. It's odd how so many are able to completely miss this despite claiming otherwise.
It's also odd how many things the EV haters have to pretend in order to make their argument.

1. That there was no waiting in line for gas for hours and hours at a time.
2. That gas was readily available, despite the fact that some areas has a majority of gas stations empty.
3. That superchargers don't exist, don't have a dozen plus stalls on many cases, etc.
4. That when returning the gas stations which had run out or had long lines magically no longer will.
5. That gas stations don't need electricity, or that they all magically have csw generators. Even more so, that ALL charging stations are in areas of no power. Tampa is already back up and running, as is Daytons
6. That Tesla owners don't own generators or that the plug share network isn't in existence.
7. That the average car gets 400miles to the tank (lol) and that Teslas don't do better in maintaining their range in stop and go traffic than gas powered cars.

And finally, that no one escaped Irma in a Tesla, despite the fact that now dozens of people have reported that they have. And now people are reporting that they have gotten back in theirs as well.

Here is just one thread of the half a dozen in that forum.
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forum...hank-you-tesla
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:44 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,627,693 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Problem, a large portion of Florida as an example, has no power to recharge the batteries.

Here in Montana the Department of Motor Vehicles declared not one Tesla registered in Montana. Here they are almost useless. When the weather turns cold and some ice, the range drops by 60%. Going up and down mountains, and hills, takes a lot of the range out of the car. Using heat, takes out a lot more. It gets so bad when all figured in, half the year, we could not go shopping the 50 miles or 90 miles each way without having to find a recharge station. I have only seen a couple of Prius, driven by tourists in the summer time.

The electric car, is made for local transportation and to run around cities. Not out in the real world a lot of the nation lives with. Out where the towns of any size, can be 150 miles apart.

On the other hand, we don't have to worry about things like Hurricanes, and other things that cause mass evacuation. Some areas have had to evacuate due to wilderness fires caused mostly by lightening. One was caused by a big bird catching a large snake for lunch and letting it dangle going over power lines causing a transformer to blow, which cause a fire that burned 10s of thousands of acres (official cause).

In this part of the country, go to a parking lot and you will see that about 3/4ths of the vehicles with Montana license plates being Medium to Large SUVs, and 4 Door Pickups. It is nothing to see some little tiny 16 year old girl, climb into and drive out of there in a big 4-door Diesel Heavy Hauler Pickup. And these decked out vehicles cost more than a lot of those luxury cars and sports cars city dwellers drive. Here is our Explorer as equipped which is as small a vehicle I want to drive in the wintertime. Here our doctors and business execs. and their wives drive the normal vehicle of our area, just the more expensive and larger models. In the winter, we use heavy tread studded snow tires, to get around. We are not effected by chain laws where everyone has to chain up, except if driving a 4 wheel drive with good studded snow tires. They go back on the end of this month.

Here is our SUV and how it is equipped. Of course, it has the extras on the 4X4 drive, which makes it a better and more controllable vehicle when the snow and ice get deep going up and down mountains. Dial in snow and ice, and going down hill push to down hill control, and it goes where a normal 4X4 gets into trouble.

2017 Ford Explorer - Build & Price

Our other car is a Ford F-150 pickup.

As we are 85 me and my wife 87, so these will probably be the last vehicles we will ever buy, as they both will outlast our lifetimes with no more mileage than we put on them. I don't drive 30,000 per year like I did back in my Real Estate Investment Brokerage days often involved in multiple state multiple property exchanges.
I hadn't realized hurricane Irma made it all the way to Montana.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Huntsville
6,013 posts, read 6,588,794 times
Reputation: 7031
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
And yet, people did do it. It's odd how so many are able to completely miss this despite claiming otherwise.
No one said there wasn't any Tesla owners who made it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Real life is people did leave in the EV's and made it out. Not theory, but fact.
See above.


Now, answer the question we keep asking. HOW are they going to get home when Florida has no power? You keep dodging those questions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
It's also odd how many things the EV haters have to pretend in order to make their argument.

1. That there was no waiting in line for gas for hours and hours at a time.
2. That gas was readily available, despite the fact that some areas has a majority of gas stations empty.
3. That superchargers don't exist, don't have a dozen plus stalls on many cases, etc.
4. That when returning the gas stations which had run out or had long lines magically no longer will.
5. That gas stations don't need electricity, or that they all magically have csw generators. Even more so, that ALL charging stations are in areas of no power. Tampa is already back up and running, as is Daytons
6. That Tesla owners don't own generators or that the plug share network isn't in existence.
7. That the average car gets 400miles to the tank (lol) and that Teslas don't do better in maintaining their range in stop and go traffic than gas powered cars.

And finally, that no one escaped Irma in a Tesla, despite the fact that now dozens of people have reported that they have. And now people are reporting that they have gotten back in theirs as well.

Here is just one thread of the half a dozen in that forum.
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forum...hank-you-tesla
1. No one said that. We said people had the option to store gas and take it with them. We also said you cannot do that in an EV.
2. Gas WAS readily available in the week leading to the storm. All it takes is ten minutes and a couple of gas cans to solve the issue of a person running out of fuel during the evacuation. Were EV owners lining up at the charging stations with spare batteries?
3. No one said that even once.
4. See #2. If you know you are leaving and you take gas cans with you, you fill them up prior to return and bring them back to the area where you know you might not have power. It's common sense.
5. No one said this either. But the majority of power is out, which means anyone in an evacuation zone likely doesn't have power so there are no charging stations available.
6. No one said this. (I really don't know where you're reading all of this) Are you saying EV owners carry a gas powered generator with them?
7. There are tons of SUVs/trucks that DO get 400+ miles to the tank. My Expedition gets ~500 miles to the tank.


Not sure why you are assuming that everyone said no one could make it out or get back. We keep telling you (and it's obvious you've never even been near an evacuation) that the wisest decision probably isn't an EV given the circumstances that come with a hurricane. For those that risked it and succeeded, good for them.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:46 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,627,693 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post


1. No one said that. We said people had the option to store gas and take it with them. We also said you cannot do that in an EV.
Not true. Multiple posters say, and continue to say that it only took 5 minutes to get gas. They refuse to acknowledge that there was gas lines that took hours or that in many areas there was no gas to be had.

Quote:
2. Gas WAS readily available in the week leading to the storm. All it takes is ten minutes and a couple of gas cans to solve the issue of a person running out of fuel during the evacuation. Were EV owners lining up at the charging stations with spare batteries?
Nope. By the Weds before the storm there were shortages, lines, etc. In large part because of Harvey. And no, no one needed spare batteries because the supercharging stations were online and empty right until the power went out. Many of them are already back on.

Quote:
3. No one said that even once.
What they said is only one car can charge at a time and that since the power is out in large portions of the state there is no place to charge. Not true. There are super charging stations up and running in many places through out the state including areas that do not have the power up everywhere, like Tampa.

Quote:
4. See #2. If you know you are leaving and you take gas cans with you, you fill them up prior to return and bring them back to the area where you know you might not have power. It's common sense.
Back to the no lines and no shortages statement. There were literally people who couldn't get gas Weds and Thursday. That was 6 days before the storm hit.

Quote:
5. No one said this either. But the majority of power is out, which means anyone in an evacuation zone likely doesn't have power so there are no charging stations available.
This is were ignorance is glaring. The placement of superchargers is not random. Many stations are near hospitals, substations, and other areas that will get priority energy service restored. This is why so many stations were already up and running for the EV owners who have been coming back, in their EVs and charging on the way.

Quote:
6. No one said this. (I really don't know where you're reading all of this) Are you saying EV owners carry a gas powered generator with them?
Anyone of the multiple posters who pretended people who own Teslas can't return are using some version of this line. Posters have said they won't be able to charge their cars. That is patently false. Even if every charging station went down. Which it didn't. Even if none of them came up, which many did. Even if there were not literally dozens and dozens of people volunteering to let people charge of their generator on the way down, which there are. Many if not most EV owners are going to own a CSW generator. Why? Because Teslas are expensive, and the higher your household income the more likely you are to own a home generator.

And why would they need to carry a generator when the stations are online or the plug share network is up and running?

Quote:
7. There are tons of SUVs/trucks that DO get 400+ miles to the tank. My Expedition gets ~500 miles to the tank.
Except I didn't say "SUVs/Trucks" did I? I said the average car. See the only way for you and the other posters to make your points is to make strawmen. The average vehicle is not an expedition. The average vehicle does not get 400 miles let alone 500 miles to the tank. What you need to compare is the average to the average. Comparing one extreme to the average is bad logic.


Quote:
Not sure why you are assuming that everyone said no one could make it out or get back. We keep telling you (and it's obvious you've never even been near an evacuation) that the wisest decision probably isn't an EV given the circumstances that come with a hurricane. For those that risked it and succeeded, good for them.
More strawmen, I didn't say everyone. Stop making things up. I live in NJ, right on the shore. Little storm called Sandy. We not only evacuated, we also faced a years long clean up and weeks without power. And you have no business pretending you know what is wise or is not when your posts are logical fallacies from top to bottom.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:17 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,627,693 times
Reputation: 20851
And btw, for those who think getting gas takes "5 mins".

Apparently people still can't find gas in large portions of the state. Nearly 300 miles from northern florida down to the Southwest corner no gas to be found. They are literally running out of gas sitting at gas stations with no gas. Gas lines are no longer hours long, they are miles long.

An exasperating hunt for gasoline in Florida as Hurricane Irma's evacuees scramble to come home - LA Times

Apparently a Tesla was not just useful for evacuating, but also returning.
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:36 AM
 
Location: New York City
19,061 posts, read 12,598,743 times
Reputation: 14781
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Problem, a large portion of Florida as an example, has no power to recharge the batteries.

Here in Montana the Department of Motor Vehicles declared not one Tesla registered in Montana. Here they are almost useless. When the weather turns cold and some ice, the range drops by 60%. Going up and down mountains, and hills, takes a lot of the range out of the car. Using heat, takes out a lot more. It gets so bad when all figured in, half the year, we could not go shopping the 50 miles or 90 miles each way without having to find a recharge station. I have only seen a couple of Prius, driven by tourists in the summer time.

The electric car, is made for local transportation and to run around cities. Not out in the real world a lot of the nation lives with. Out where the towns of any size, can be 150 miles apart.

On the other hand, we don't have to worry about things like Hurricanes, and other things that cause mass evacuation. Some areas have had to evacuate due to wilderness fires caused mostly by lightening. One was caused by a big bird catching a large snake for lunch and letting it dangle going over power lines causing a transformer to blow, which cause a fire that burned 10s of thousands of acres (official cause).

In this part of the country, go to a parking lot and you will see that about 3/4ths of the vehicles with Montana license plates being Medium to Large SUVs, and 4 Door Pickups. It is nothing to see some little tiny 16 year old girl, climb into and drive out of there in a big 4-door Diesel Heavy Hauler Pickup. And these decked out vehicles cost more than a lot of those luxury cars and sports cars city dwellers drive. Here is our Explorer as equipped which is as small a vehicle I want to drive in the wintertime. Here our doctors and business execs. and their wives drive the normal vehicle of our area, just the more expensive and larger models. In the winter, we use heavy tread studded snow tires, to get around. We are not effected by chain laws where everyone has to chain up, except if driving a 4 wheel drive with good studded snow tires. They go back on the end of this month.

Here is our SUV and how it is equipped. Of course, it has the extras on the 4X4 drive, which makes it a better and more controllable vehicle when the snow and ice get deep going up and down mountains. Dial in snow and ice, and going down hill push to down hill control, and it goes where a normal 4X4 gets into trouble.

2017 Ford Explorer - Build & Price

Our other car is a Ford F-150 pickup.

As we are 85 me and my wife 87, so these will probably be the last vehicles we will ever buy, as they both will outlast our lifetimes with no more mileage than we put on them. I don't drive 30,000 per year like I did back in my Real Estate Investment Brokerage days often involved in multiple state multiple property exchanges.
The technology will catch up, eventually you'll be able to get an electric pickup truck with more horsepower and range than a gas engine truck that can fill a charge in under 15 minutes.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:39 AM
 
4,833 posts, read 5,670,687 times
Reputation: 5908
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
And btw, for those who think getting gas takes "5 mins".

Apparently people still can't find gas in large portions of the state. Nearly 300 miles from northern florida down to the Southwest corner no gas to be found. They are literally running out of gas sitting at gas stations with no gas. Gas lines are no longer hours long, they are miles long.

An exasperating hunt for gasoline in Florida as Hurricane Irma's evacuees scramble to come home - LA Times

Apparently a Tesla was not just useful for evacuating, but also returning.
Yes, that's what happens when a disaster hits. Seeing as most of Florida is still without power where will one go recharge their EV.

I'm sure grocery stores are out of stock of basic staples like milk, bread, water, etc.

Maybe if all the delivery trucks were EV we wouldn't have this issue right Or first responders?

No one is saying if you drive an ICE and a disaster hits you don't have to worry.

No, what most are saying is if you know of am impending emergency situation it is a lot easier to prepare for getaway if you have an ICE due to the fact that you can easily carry extra fuel with you and store it days/weeks out.

Those that don't prepare are doomed regardless of what kind of vehicle they have.

Just as those that try to go purchase bottled water hours before vs days.
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