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This is what many who hate car payments or believe in car payments at all dont seem to realize owning a older car. A old car needing a transmission costing $3-4000, suspension work of $1000, new brakes and rotors $500, Tires $400-800, random failures like fuel pumps or other components running a minimum of $300-500 to get fixed that can all come back to back if a car wasnt maintained properly or has crossed the 150-200k mile in which things has passed their usable lifespan.
While it wouldnt be more than 1-2yrs tops worth of car payments, because if you pay $3-8000 for many repeated repairs many times on a car, you should have a almost new car that should run for years when those repairs are done. But $3000 to even $8 or 10K, is still cheaper than 60-84 months of $300-500 payments, so assuming the car will still be worth $5-10k after repairs, it makes sense to do repairs, but many people dont have $3-5K+ sitting around for major car repairs.
You pick your poison with cars. You either bite the bullet and make payments on a new/newer one or get out your wrenches and get ready to get your hands dirty working on an older one. (Or pay a fortune for some idiot to do a half-a*sed job on it for you.)
The cheap option is to buy a bus or subway pass and live a car-free lifestyle. I actually did this for a few years. It has its own set of issues and trade-offs obviously but for a lot of people it's a workable solution. Of course there are never any free lunches. Most metro areas where you can reasonably pull this off are very expensive ones to live in so they get you coming or going.
I'll throw out a point of view that I haven't really seen expressed here...
I find a platform I like, learn their faults and benefits, and then buy them over and over again taking the bits off of that one on to the new one or just buying better / nicer versions of them.
I've had 3 S10s and 3 early 90s Escorts. Both are just about as simple as they get and I can buy them with like 70,000 miles, rust free, for about 2 grand if I shop around and take my time (Escorts for about 1/2 that). I know right off the hop that they're getting all new steering, all new brakes, probably tires (because they're so old, usually), hoses, fluids, thermostats, filters, and probably a few other odd repairs here and there (Escorts get timing belts, water pumps, and rear brake lines too). On either platform, all of that work is 1 weekend and it's good to go.
My average mileage out of this approach has been about 100k for each vehicle with no real major malfunctions. Average cost is about $2500-$3500, all in, and I drive something I like, am familiar with, and have a good knowledge base on (and generally, parts on hand). Major failures are simply not part of the equation for repair. So if they pop a motor or a transmission, it's off to the next life for them and I'll go get another one. Usually rust kills them around the same time so I'm ahead of the game in terms of replacement.
Granted, that approach isn't for everyone as it does require some effort, tools, and skills, but it's about as cheap of driving as I've ever found... The Escorts especially pay it back in spades because they get like 35+ mpg and the parts are almost free.
I have other cars that are more interesting to drive if I want to, but for the daily beaters, that's what works for me. At that point they're just appliances for carting me and groceries around, so whatever. I'm not too worried about one letting me down (and it's happened a handful of times) because it only derails whatever I was going to do that day... which is exactly what would happen if a brand new car let you down too. Same-same. I just come home and hop in something else until I can either repair it or replace it, which I believe is a fundamental key to depending on your vehicle for your livelihood (like going to work) anyhow. You should have a spare or at least a solid plan to immediate obtain one (a rental or whatever).
I'll throw out a point of view that I haven't really seen expressed here...
I find a platform I like, learn their faults and benefits, and then buy them over and over again taking the bits off of that one on to the new one or just buying better / nicer versions of them.
I'm doing the same thing, only with Mk4 Golf TDIs instead of Escorts and Chevy S-10s. I bought a new one in 2003 and liked it so much that I bought another 2003 TDI, with low mileage, in 2014. Identical except for color and the more recent purchase has a sunroof. The original one is my work car, the other is nicer and I call it my weekend car.
Not only that, but I have an open Craigslist search so I get an email notification when other ones show up for sale in the area. I'm not in the market for another, I just like to see what's available, for what prices, and how quickly they find new owners.
I'll throw out a point of view that I haven't really seen expressed here...
I find a platform I like, learn their faults and benefits, and then buy them over and over again taking the bits off of that one on to the new one or just buying better / nicer versions of them.
I've had 3 S10s and 3 early 90s Escorts. Both are just about as simple as they get and I can buy them with like 70,000 miles, rust free, for about 2 grand if I shop around and take my time (Escorts for about 1/2 that). I know right off the hop that they're getting all new steering, all new brakes, probably tires (because they're so old, usually), hoses, fluids, thermostats, filters, and probably a few other odd repairs here and there (Escorts get timing belts, water pumps, and rear brake lines too). On either platform, all of that work is 1 weekend and it's good to go.
My average mileage out of this approach has been about 100k for each vehicle with no real major malfunctions. Average cost is about $2500-$3500, all in, and I drive something I like, am familiar with, and have a good knowledge base on (and generally, parts on hand). Major failures are simply not part of the equation for repair. So if they pop a motor or a transmission, it's off to the next life for them and I'll go get another one. Usually rust kills them around the same time so I'm ahead of the game in terms of replacement.
Granted, that approach isn't for everyone as it does require some effort, tools, and skills, but it's about as cheap of driving as I've ever found... The Escorts especially pay it back in spades because they get like 35+ mpg and the parts are almost free.
I have other cars that are more interesting to drive if I want to, but for the daily beaters, that's what works for me. At that point they're just appliances for carting me and groceries around, so whatever. I'm not too worried about one letting me down (and it's happened a handful of times) because it only derails whatever I was going to do that day... which is exactly what would happen if a brand new car let you down too. Same-same. I just come home and hop in something else until I can either repair it or replace it, which I believe is a fundamental key to depending on your vehicle for your livelihood (like going to work) anyhow. You should have a spare or at least a solid plan to immediate obtain one (a rental or whatever).
Anyhow... That's my $0.02.
Some very good points indeed.
Being able to drive what you like at a price that feel good about while you can sleep worry free of car debt is a real pleasure.
I'll throw out a point of view that I haven't really seen expressed here...
I find a platform I like, learn their faults and benefits, and then buy them over and over again taking the bits off of that one on to the new one or just buying better / nicer versions of them.
I've had 3 S10s and 3 early 90s Escorts. Both are just about as simple as they get and I can buy them with like 70,000 miles, rust free, for about 2 grand if I shop around and take my time (Escorts for about 1/2 that). I know right off the hop that they're getting all new steering, all new brakes, probably tires (because they're so old, usually), hoses, fluids, thermostats, filters, and probably a few other odd repairs here and there (Escorts get timing belts, water pumps, and rear brake lines too). On either platform, all of that work is 1 weekend and it's good to go.
My average mileage out of this approach has been about 100k for each vehicle with no real major malfunctions. Average cost is about $2500-$3500, all in, and I drive something I like, am familiar with, and have a good knowledge base on (and generally, parts on hand). Major failures are simply not part of the equation for repair. So if they pop a motor or a transmission, it's off to the next life for them and I'll go get another one. Usually rust kills them around the same time so I'm ahead of the game in terms of replacement.
Granted, that approach isn't for everyone as it does require some effort, tools, and skills, but it's about as cheap of driving as I've ever found... The Escorts especially pay it back in spades because they get like 35+ mpg and the parts are almost free.
I have other cars that are more interesting to drive if I want to, but for the daily beaters, that's what works for me. At that point they're just appliances for carting me and groceries around, so whatever. I'm not too worried about one letting me down (and it's happened a handful of times) because it only derails whatever I was going to do that day... which is exactly what would happen if a brand new car let you down too. Same-same. I just come home and hop in something else until I can either repair it or replace it, which I believe is a fundamental key to depending on your vehicle for your livelihood (like going to work) anyhow. You should have a spare or at least a solid plan to immediate obtain one (a rental or whatever).
Anyhow... That's my $0.02.
That's great if you own five acres and don't have to worry about HOAs, CCRs and code enforcement. And you have a shop, tools, time and the skills to work on vehicles. I think we've just ruled out 99.999 percent of the population.
I'll throw out a point of view that I haven't really seen expressed here...
I find a platform I like, learn their faults and benefits, and then buy them over and over again taking the bits off of that one on to the new one or just buying better / nicer versions of them.
I've had 3 S10s and 3 early 90s Escorts. Both are just about as simple as they get and I can buy them with like 70,000 miles, rust free, for about 2 grand if I shop around and take my time (Escorts for about 1/2 that). I know right off the hop that they're getting all new steering, all new brakes, probably tires (because they're so old, usually), hoses, fluids, thermostats, filters, and probably a few other odd repairs here and there (Escorts get timing belts, water pumps, and rear brake lines too). On either platform, all of that work is 1 weekend and it's good to go.
My average mileage out of this approach has been about 100k for each vehicle with no real major malfunctions. Average cost is about $2500-$3500, all in, and I drive something I like, am familiar with, and have a good knowledge base on (and generally, parts on hand). Major failures are simply not part of the equation for repair. So if they pop a motor or a transmission, it's off to the next life for them and I'll go get another one. Usually rust kills them around the same time so I'm ahead of the game in terms of replacement.
Granted, that approach isn't for everyone as it does require some effort, tools, and skills, but it's about as cheap of driving as I've ever found... The Escorts especially pay it back in spades because they get like 35+ mpg and the parts are almost free.
I have other cars that are more interesting to drive if I want to, but for the daily beaters, that's what works for me. At that point they're just appliances for carting me and groceries around, so whatever. I'm not too worried about one letting me down (and it's happened a handful of times) because it only derails whatever I was going to do that day... which is exactly what would happen if a brand new car let you down too. Same-same. I just come home and hop in something else until I can either repair it or replace it, which I believe is a fundamental key to depending on your vehicle for your livelihood (like going to work) anyhow. You should have a spare or at least a solid plan to immediate obtain one (a rental or whatever).
Anyhow... That's my $0.02.
Cool idea.... I was always partial to Chevy Novas from the 1970s (attractive styling, not too big / not too small, mechanically simple). But maybe it's a bit late now to use them with your strategy... I don't see many around anymore.
That's great if you own five acres and don't have to worry about HOAs, CCRs and code enforcement. And you have a shop, tools, time and the skills to work on vehicles. I think we've just ruled out 99.999 percent of the population.
I don't know that 99% of the population lives in an HOA neighborhood.
1.) You don't need a shop or 5 acres. A small garage will suffice if in an HOA. The driveway otherwise.
2.) Tools are acquired as needed and with the invention of Harbor Freight and such, are relatively cheap.
3.) Skills are learned by doing. You can learn most of what you need from a repair manual or a Youtube video.
I learned to work on my vehicles out of necessity. I couldn't afford a mechanic so I learned how to apply common sense to find the problem and fix it. Now I do it because it saves a lot of money. I make most of my repairs in my driveway because my truck is too large to fit into the garage. Most repairs only take a few hours to a day and no one has ever complained in my neighborhood because my vehicles don't sit on jackstands for days/weeks at a time.
A lot of people who are either lazy or afraid to work on a vehicle will quickly throw that out as the reason to buy new or lease. There is no one walking the planet that couldn't learn to fix their vehicle with a little time and patience. Sure, it might mean a couple of late nights here or there where you miss your favorite tv show, but it pays off.
If you work on your own vehicles ownership becomes much cheaper than buying new or leasing in many cases. Since owning my truck I've replaced both front hub assemblies, all of the brake pads/rotors, shocks, deleted the emission system and replaced the entire exhaust (diesel), repaired a rear window leak, replaced the mirrors, and a few other small issues. I've saved thousands of dollars by doing it myself and had done none of those things (except brakes) prior to this instance. It took me a few days, and probably $100 worth of tools to do the work.
I learned to work on my vehicles out of necessity. I couldn't afford a mechanic so I learned how to apply common sense to find the problem and fix it.
Growing up below the poverty line, so did I. But now I don't buy cars to save money. I buy cars because I like cars. Sometimes that's a used car project of a car I especially liked in the past, sometimes that's a new car that I especially like now.
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A lot of people who are either lazy or afraid to work on a vehicle will quickly throw that out as the reason to buy new or lease. There is no one walking the planet that couldn't learn to fix their vehicle with a little time and patience. Sure, it might mean a couple of late nights here or there where you miss your favorite tv show, but it pays off.
I can work on my own vehicles, and often do. But these days, I'd much rather checkbook a repair, or have it covered under warranty so I don't HAVE to be the one under the car getting greasy when I have other things I want to spend my spare time on.
It sucks when your daily driver is down for the count while you're waiting for parts and time to dive into it, and you don't have another car to drive to work, or a car breaks at a most inopportune time and you have to thrash on it to be able to get to work in the morning. I'd much rather have a dealer take the car in for a warranty repair and get a loaner. I have 170k miles on my daily driver BMW and even though I trust it, I am constantly aware that a catastrophic failure could happen and I'd be out a bunch of time and money if I repaired it myself, and worse if I had to pay someone to do it.
Growing up below the poverty line, so did I. But now I don't buy cars to save money. I buy cars because I like cars. Sometimes that's a used car project of a car I especially liked in the past, sometimes that's a new car that I especially like now.
I can work on my own vehicles, and often do. But these days, I'd much rather checkbook a repair, or have it covered under warranty so I don't HAVE to be the one under the car getting greasy when I have other things I want to spend my spare time on.
It sucks when your daily driver is down for the count while you're waiting for parts and time to dive into it, and you don't have another car to drive to work, or a car breaks at a most inopportune time and you have to thrash on it to be able to get to work in the morning. I'd much rather have a dealer take the car in for a warranty repair and get a loaner. I have 170k miles on my daily driver BMW and even though I trust it, I am constantly aware that a catastrophic failure could happen and I'd be out a bunch of time and money if I repaired it myself, and worse if I had to pay someone to do it.
Well, the way I handle this is that I have at least 3 "daily drivers" to choose from, so when (not if) one is sitting in my "repair bay" waiting for me to have a weekend to deal with it, I simply drive another car.
That and I do have at least one good local shop on speed dial, in case I have to farm out a job because I got behind.
Your comment on growing up poor - I wonder how many of us who turn our own wrenches grew up, if not exactly poor, definitely not rich? I grew up in a thrifty and efficient family, Dad was the only wage earner, he did OK but far from wealthy, and I always had a good intuitive understanding of basic economics - the buck I spend on A, is not available to buy B.
That's great if you own five acres and don't have to worry about HOAs, CCRs and code enforcement. And you have a shop, tools, time and the skills to work on vehicles. I think we've just ruled out 99.999 percent of the population.
I'm not doing anything that requires violating any of that stuff and I even used to live in a neighborhood with all of those restrictions AND I was renting so I had a LL to deal with too. No problems. 2 cars in the garage, 2 cars in the driveway, everything registered, everything legit. No issues. I wasn't suggesting that people stack up disabled cars all over the place... In fact, as I originally stated, any severe disability on $2k car, IMO, is a life-ending injury for it. I snatch the parts off of those that I want to keep (which do not include major body parts.. I'm not running a junk yard. I'm talking alternators, coil packs, sensors, heater controls, etc... smallish stuff that I can store inside easily) and send the rest to the can factory.
Again... If you don't have the inclination, time, or skills to do it yourself, I understand, but don't dismiss it as "99% of people can't" because that's simply not true. I'll be moving from the house I own soon and once again becoming a renter for awhile. The properties I'm seeing in the area with 2 car garages are $800-$1200/mo and if that fails, storage units are $80-$120/mo (truth is that I'll probably need to do both). Without a car payment to worry about, pretty much any working person can afford that. I imagine that you can't do that in San Fransisco, NYC, Chicago, etc, but that's not 99% of the US.
Finally, I was just sharing what I've been doing for about the last 15 years and how it's worked out for me. It wasn't a prescription for what YOU should do.
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