Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No one's saying they don't break. but it's less likey AND it's not your problem if they do.
Not your problem sure, if you don’t mind paying for, insuring (full coverage) and are ok with the fact that your new car needs a repair. How good does that make you feel about your “investment” and your piece of mind going forward? Some don’t mind being at the mercy of the dealership, that’s not my bag though.
Not as big an inconvenience as being under your broken old car in the rain while you try to figure out what's wrong so you can get to work the next day. Been there, done that. And no loaners if you have to checkbook it and take it to your favorite indy shop.
With a used car I think you should always have some repair money saved or a repair account with a minimum amount kept, if possible....everyone’s situation is different.
Been under previous cars in the rain, snow, heat, gravel, cement etc and I’m still here to tell the tale, I didn’t melt, start crying, or go on a rampage because I had initial difficulties figuring out a repair....in fact I came out more knowledgeable, great feeling of satisfaction and more confident that I could tackle more in the future if I needed to. Again, I don’t like being at the mercy of the dealership or indy mechanics time/convenience so I choose to work on my own vehicles and can do most things, even living in a gated apartment community in Los Angeles. I could easily take my vehicles to a mechanic if I needed to, I choose not to... there’s something to be said for self reliance even though it appears to be in short supply for many now days.
Oh, I agree. my current daily driver is, as I said, a 17 year old car with 170k miles on it. I've put $200 or so into repairs for it in the last two years and have taken a couple long trips in it. BUT, I know that it COULD leave me stranded with either a difficult repair job, or an expensive one, and I'll be out a car for a while. And paying for and insuring a bunch of cars to have one available when your primary one goes down is as expensive as simply paying for one new car with a warranty in many cases, especially for the majority of people who don't have the location or skills to work on cars themselves.
Again, your NEW car COULD also leave you stranded with a difficult to trace electrical problem (check out any car forum) or simple mechanical failures... meteors COULD fall to earth and destroy everything as we know it... lots of things COULD happen in the world.
New doesn’t mean perfect or reliable even though most of the time it does, more or less depending a lot on make/model and previous history of, choice... and if having to drive a loaner while you pay new car payments and insurance for your new car to sit in a shop for an undisclosed amount of time is a convenience well we have different definitions of the word then. Plus the simple fact that your new car HAD to be repaired doesn’t inspire confidence for the future, been there and done that.
Also no one has skill at repairing vehicles until they have skills at repairing vehicles and that comes from, you guessed it, repairing vehicles! Nowadays the information to do almost anything is out there and lots of times there’s even a video to show you exactly what to do. Now if you simply have no desire to work on a car that’s a different story and nothing wrong with that at all, but the excuse of not having the knowledge isn’t really an excuse anymore unless we’re talking involved electrical diagnosis and repair or major engine/transmission overhaul type work. I get it that not everyone enjoys getting dirty and greasy and banged up working on their car and that’s ok, it takes all types to make the world go round.
I enjoy the challenge of automotive work, in fact I enjoy challenge period and for me stepping out of my comfort zone to tackle and learn new things is the reward in and of itself. I realize my point of view isn’t everyones and in fact probably in the minority but I take pride in not being dependent on others for every little thing I need or that comes up in life.
While I was cruising city-data forums I ran across this post that is the very best advice I ever read anywhere about worry free car/truck ownership. So much worry free common sense in a few words......
I quote....
By...Electrician4you
[i]"I drive the hell out of my cars. My work truck is a chevy. I just rebuilt the transmission. For me to buy a equivalent new truck would run me about 40k or about 20 for a 5-6 year old one. I rebuilt the trans for $1750. It's. CHEAPER to repair a vehicle than to buy a new one.
People are slaves to credit nowadays, because most people have no money in savings and can't save money.
Again, your NEW car COULD also leave you stranded with a difficult to trace electrical problem (check out any car forum) or simple mechanical failures... meteors COULD fall to earth and destroy everything as we know it... lots of things COULD happen in the world.
New doesn’t mean perfect or reliable even though most of the time it does, more or less depending a lot on make/model and previous history of, choice... and if having to drive a loaner while you pay new car payments and insurance for your new car to sit in a shop for an undisclosed amount of time is a convenience well we have different definitions of the word then. Plus the simple fact that your new car HAD to be repaired doesn’t inspire confidence for the future, been there and done that.
Also no one has skill at repairing vehicles until they have skills at repairing vehicles and that comes from, you guessed it, repairing vehicles! Nowadays the information to do almost anything is out there and lots of times there’s even a video to show you exactly what to do. Now if you simply have no desire to work on a car that’s a different story and nothing wrong with that at all, but the excuse of not having the knowledge isn’t really an excuse anymore unless we’re talking involved electrical diagnosis and repair or major engine/transmission overhaul type work. I get it that not everyone enjoys getting dirty and greasy and banged up working on their car and that’s ok, it takes all types to make the world go round.
I enjoy the challenge of automotive work, in fact I enjoy challenge period and for me stepping out of my comfort zone to tackle and learn new things is the reward in and of itself. I realize my point of view isn’t everyones and in fact probably in the minority but I take pride in not being dependent on others for every little thing I need or that comes up in life.
I've been buying brand new vehicles since 1973. The few times I have been stranded it's always been after the vehicle was older and way past its warranty. The chances of a newer vehicle leaving you stranded are way smaller than that of an older vehicle.
I’m a younger guy and I’m just the opposite. While I appreciate how modern vehicles are vastly more reliable refined, and generally built better than they used to be, today’s base model vehicles are honestly the best bang for the buck, already have everything you need and nothing you don’t. The upscale models are a ridiculous display of bread and circus IMO.
My Toyota Yaris rental car without power mirrors disagrees with you.
I've been buying brand new vehicles since 1973. The few times I have been stranded it's always been after the vehicle was older and way past its warranty. The chances of a newer vehicle leaving you stranded are way smaller than that of an older vehicle.
Yes that point has been beaten to death and I don’t think anyone is disputing it??
But your new car CAN leave you stranded and it does happen, it’s happened to me. Common sense dictates that as something gets older it’s chances of mechanical failures increases, that’s where you, the owner come in, with maintenance and upkeep you decrease those chances incrementally... how do I know? Well that’s what I do and it’s worked for me and others that I know and it just kinda makes sense you know? You maintain something properly and in turn it and it’s components last longer than if they were improperly maintained. It seems like almost everyone has forgotten the original point of this thread, this thread wasn’t originally titled “Well maintained used cars never break down” it was a post that was one persons opinion about what you might expect from caring for and maintaining an older vehicle more or less.
Here’s the part where someone else should be chiming in yet again for the thousandth time with “the chances of a newer vehicle leaving you stranded are less”
The truth is your new vehicle can leave you stranded... and there you are with a new vehicle that already needs a repair! It happens! Yep you get a loaner, yep it’s not your problem, if you consider a new vehicle that needs a repair not a problem I guess.
I’ve had several brand new vehicles and most were dead reliable but I’ve had two that had problems within the first 900 and 3000 miles respectively and just because I got a loaner to drive and the repairs didn’t fall on my bank account did not make it convenient for me nor was I happy and confidence inspired that my major investment was in need of repair barely before break in was even achieved.
Cue the next predictable “a new car is less likely to leave you stranded” remark...
Yes that point has been beaten to death and I don’t think anyone is disputing it??
But your new car CAN leave you stranded and it does happen, it’s happened to me. Common sense dictates that as something gets older it’s chances of mechanical failures increases, that’s where you, the owner come in, with maintenance and upkeep you decrease those chances incrementally... how do I know? Well that’s what I do and it’s worked for me and others that I know and it just kinda makes sense you know? You maintain something properly and in turn it and it’s components last longer than if they were improperly maintained. It seems like almost everyone has forgotten the original point of this thread, this thread wasn’t originally titled “Well maintained used cars never break down” it was a post that was one persons opinion about what you might expect from caring for and maintaining an older vehicle more or less.
Here’s the part where someone else should be chiming in yet again for the thousandth time with “the chances of a newer vehicle leaving you stranded are less”
The truth is your new vehicle can leave you stranded... and there you are with a new vehicle that already needs a repair! It happens! Yep you get a loaner, yep it’s not your problem, if you consider a new vehicle that needs a repair not a problem I guess.
I’ve had several brand new vehicles and most were dead reliable but I’ve had two that had problems within the first 900 and 3000 miles respectively and just because I got a loaner to drive and the repairs didn’t fall on my bank account did not make it convenient for me nor was I happy and confidence inspired that my major investment was in need of repair barely before break in was even achieved.
Cue the next predictable “a new car is less likely to leave you stranded” remark...
It's like you didn't read anything. I said even a new car can break. You're acting like having a lower chance of breaking means we think it CAN'T break. So you're arguing strawmen, with crappy grammar and worse formatting.
Having your old car break down and having to get it towed back to your house is NO MORE CONVENIENT than having it towed to a dealership. It inspires NO MORE CONFIDENCE in it than if it happens to a new car. BUT, it's WAY more convenient to get a loaner and not have to fix it yourself than to have NO loaner and work on it all night to get to work the next day.
It's like you didn't read anything. I said even a new car can break. You're acting like having a lower chance of breaking means we think it CAN'T break. So you're arguing strawmen, with crappy grammar and worse formatting.
Having your old car break down and having to get it towed back to your house is NO MORE CONVENIENT than having it towed to a dealership. It inspires NO MORE CONFIDENCE in it than if it happens to a new car. BUT, it's WAY more convenient to get a loaner and not have to fix it yourself than to have NO loaner and work on it all night to get to work the next day.
Arguing against that is just silly.
Ahh so your attempting to pic at grammar because you’ve got nothing... excellent choice, can’t see through that at all.
Have you read any part of this thread, maybe even from the beginning? If so your comprehension skills are under considerable question. Might I suggest removing your head from your ass or whoever’s ass it’s in and reading it?
Back here in earth though you make or validate no points that haven’t been made or validated already and what’s convenient for you might not be the same to someone that can or wants to work on their vehicle and isn’t afraid of maybe breaking a manicured nail.
I couldnt give a sh1t less about formatting a post for you and proper grammar, well if you’ve gotten to the point of trying to find something to pick apart I think that about proves your mentality if everyone hasn’t gotten that figured out already.
Because you say something is silly that must make it a fact eh?
Are you understanding this or is it not formatted or grammatically correct enough for your precious, delicate little self.
You write the best posts!
I never said that one option is ALWAYS the best or worst. Not once.
What I DID say is that for someone who is living paycheck to paycheck leasing isn't going to solve their problems. Leasing is only pushing the problem (which in this scenario is needing affordable transportation) down the road. It solves the problem for 36 months. After 36 months, they will deal with the problem again.
All that the person is doing is paying the depreciation down for the dealership on the now used car. They will in turn sell it and profit on the car twice.
By buying a car (and keep in mind we are assuming the scenario above and a fairly inexpensive car) you aren't paying for the large depreciation hit and when the term is over you have a vehicle that you could sell and recoup some of your money on.
I'll use a real world example since I don't seem to be clear with what I am saying.
2012 Honda Civic 4 DR EX with 70k miles (nothing on a Honda): NADA is $9,375.
You buy it today for $9,300. Finance for 36 months @ 4% interest. Monthly payment is $258.33.
At the end of the finance term, the price of the car is $9,672.
During 3 years you drive a total of 40,000 miles and you perform the following maintenance:
Timing belt/water pump: $900
Tires: $500
Brakes: $250
Oil change at 5k mile intervals (8 times @ $40 per trip) = $240
Total Maintenance Cost = $1,890
Total cost of the car after 36 months = $11,562.
NADA of the car after the end of 36 months with 110k miles (I used a 2009 model - 3 years older with 110k miles to simulate the potential value in 3 years) = $6,525.
Now.... here's where the difference comes in. At the end of 3 years, the owner can choose to sell the car if they need to and potentially get back $6,500. That brings the total cost of ownership down to $5,037 for 36 months. If they sold the car their total monthly cost would be $139.92 per month.
2017 Civic LX
$1,999.00 due at signing. $169/mo for 36 mos. (Excludes taxes, title, and dealer fees and is for "well-qualified lessees").
We can assume that after the additional taxes, title fee, dealer fees, etc... we can tack another $500 onto the initial payment.
Total due at signing - $2,499
Monthly payment - $199
The terms are:
Total monthly payments = $6,084
Option to purchase at end of lease = $11,636.55
Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and $0.15/mile over 12,000 miles per year.
Let's assume they stick within the 12k mile yearly limit.
At the end of 36 months the lease cost them $8,583. Now they decide to buy the car. They finance $11,636.55 for 36 months at 4%. After 36 months the total on the car was $12,102.01. Now they own the car after 6 years, and their total cost of the car was $20,685.01. The MSRP when new was $20,415. You could probably have bought it for $18k.
Where are they making a wise decision? This is what sucks people into leases. You're going to pay full price plus some for the car. People who aren't very good with their money see this as a cheaper option to get into a new car, but they don't sit down and work out the math.
I understand your point, but a true lease vs. buy calculation should start with the same vehicle, not a 2017 lease vs. a 2012 purchase. Of course purchasing a 5 yr old vehicle will cost less than leasing a new one.
Using your lease example above of $2499 down/$199 month (which I would argue someone should be able to beat if you have reasonable credit) - the lease + purchase at lease end costs $20,685.21.
If you bought from the beginning @$20,415, with a $2500 down payment (same as lease) and a $1226 discount (CarsDirect price of 19,189 for the vehicle) @1.9% financing (Honda preferred rate for 72mnths). You get 72 payments at $246.17 = $17724.24 + $2500 = $20224.24.
So in the end, buying the car cost $460 less than lease + buy at lease end. So a 2.2% premium that gives you the right to toss the vehicle after 36 months without any frictional costs of selling.
The caveats - purchase price could have been reduced in both situations, financing the 3 yr old purchase could have been done at a lower rate (Penfed offers 2.49% for 36 months on used cars), presumably the buyer would have kept the same insurance coverage in both scenarios.
The example above shows that you have to do the math each and every time. There are some vehicles which lease well (strong discounts from MSRP, huge incentives, strong residuals, ability to buy the rate down with multiple security deposits - Volvo, Mercedes, Infiniti, certain GM vehicles) and some that purchase better (incentives are for purchase - not lease, poor residual - large SUVs, Ford/Lincoln vehicles).
New cars can also breakdown for whatever reason and leave people stranded? Its maybe not the norm but it does happen. Again head to any car forum if you are in disbelief. Electrical issues, CANBUS nightmares that can render a new car useless even when mechanical components are perfect. Electrical issues in newer cars can take a lot of time and effort to diagnose, track and trace.
Sure with a new car you’ll probably get a loaner while your nice new car you are making insurance and car payments on sits, unable to be used in a shop somewhere until someone can figure it out, still a huge inconvenience in my book.
I’m not anti new car but just because someone has an older car with some miles on it does not make it a beater or unreliable... I have both an older vehicle and a newer one.
I have an 04 Nissan 350z that I daily drive and put anywhere from 300-500 miles a week on driving to work and just turned over 169,000 on the clock. I bought the car with 60k on it as the third owner five years ago and have driven it from Los Angeles to central florida and back, Austin TX, Salt Lake City etc... it’s taken me all over, even through a few snow storms... I have never seen the check engine light on the car, never has it left me stranded and all I’ve had to do is standard regular maintenance, replace tires, had a door handle break and I replaced it, took about 10 minutes of my time, that’s it. I meticulously maintain my vehicles and that makes a world of difference, plus I don’t mind wrenching, actually enjoy it...for the most part... wrenching is more fun though when you are doing it out of choice more than out of nessesity.
I also have a newer SUV that’s been problem free but I choose to drive my Z most of the time because it’s just more fun to drive.
Btw I just saw on one of your previous posts that you have a Jeep. My second vehicle is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, that’s why I previously mentioned about checking out a Jeep forum to see how many brand new ones are having issues with less than 1000 miles on the clock.
Mine is a 2011, the first year of the WK2 so potentially the worst year to buy since they will most likely be working the bugs out. Mine has been 100% reliable to this point but man, reading that Jeep forum gets me worried from time to time! So many issues some are having.... with brand new vehicles! A few just barley got out of the dealership lot before issues started. That’s the thing with brand new vehicles, you are the reliability tester! They have no previous history other than their previous model/ lineage which isn’t always the best predictor of continued reliability when the new models are testers for the latest gadgets, goodies and technology. Just crazy.
I thought about buying a new JGC but the cost to benefit over my 2011 just wasn’t there.
I have a 2011 GC and its held up great. At 100K now. Of all the complaints on the Jeep brand and the GC is one of the most trouble free vehicles I've owned aside from a Civic. The GC's leather held up better than the Civic though.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
