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I provided you with a 5 year plan as you requested. Let's just move the goalposts.
He's not moving the goalposts. Your quote from post #134:
"but again you're making up examples. You aren't using the ones I am providing to you. The ones I provided were an option where the vehicles were 2 years old and had less than 25k miles more than the brand new one."
You claim you're using examples where the used vehicles are only 2 years old, but, in your last example you compared a new 2017 vs. a used 2012=5 year difference, not 2.
Those looking to "hold their value" are those looking to sell soon so they can buy something ELSE to "impress with"
Possibly. But there are numerous interesting cars - NOT necessarily the most hallowed classics - which at some age reach the bottom of their depreciation curve. They're not necessarily investment-grade, but they do begin to gradually rise in price, assuming that maintenance is good, and use is sparing. An example would be pretty much any RWD 1970s sedan (foreign or domestic). If it still runs, and isn't a rust-heap, it will likely be more valuable in 2030 than it is today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondtheHorizon
If anything major happens in the used car, that changes the equation greatly. Trannies can blow even on well maintained cars.
This is one reason for why, when a car gets older, "regular maintenance" may no longer be worthwhile. Or phrased alternatively, wanton-neglect becomes logical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bande1102
... And pretty much everybody lies...about condition, not having records, about accidents, etc.
True. But buyers also lie to sellers. Tell the seller that that nasty screeching sound coming from the steering-rack means that teeth have broken off of the pinion-gear... dangerous to drive, $2000 repair. In reality, there's a slow leak from the power-steering reservoir; $4 bottle of fluid from the parts-store will fix it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bande1102
Fifth, insurance. I was pleasantly surprised at the difference in price when I dropped an old car and added a new. The new apparently had all kinds of safety features the positively impacted insurance.
Always, always always only get liability-coverage. That substantially lowers the price. I've played the game of getting liability-quotes for different types of cars. It turns out, that the rate for me is almost identical, for a Corvette Z06, for a Cruze, and for my old Datsun. Age and type of car don't matter. What matters is the driver. Of course, this is assuming that you're insuring a stable of cars (it would be too pompous to call it a fleet).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert
I've owned over 45 vehicles in my lifetime (some new, most used). Of those, very few (with exception to the Audi and an F250 with a 6.4L Powerstroke) were money pits where the cost to maintain them grew exponentially. Of all my vehicles the most expensive repair I ever made (outside of tires) was ball-joints and that cost me $600. All went well over 100k and many went well over 200k miles.
I've come across some pretty major repairs... blown head gasket (in one case, necessitating a brand new cylinder head, for a new-ish car that was just ever so slightly still within factory warranty) and clutch replacement (including flywheel resurfacing) are two common ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert
The risk of a major problem begins to increase the very second that a car rolls off the factory floor. The problem is that it isn't an exponential growth. It's a very minor growth that (when maintained properly) shouldn't be recognized until well over the 200k mile mark.
True, but repairs CAN snowball exponentially if an older car is intentionally neglected. This is exactly the fate of older daily-drivers whose integrity starts to get overcome by rust. With the car that cosmetically (and maybe not so cosmetically) blemished, one loses interest in continuing to do maintenance. Eventually various maladies creep up, fester and accumulate. An unattended engine noise, maybe some overheating, then valve-guide blowby (or piston ring blowby), then a spun rod-bearing, and finally catastrophic engine failure. For interference-engines, a common death is when the timing belt ruptures, crashing valves into pistons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd393
...There is higher risk in spending $20000 on a late model used than there is on a older good car for $2500 to $7500.
If that $20000 car blows an engine and needs a $5000 repair, you almost have to do it to protect your investment. If that happens to the $2500 car you can get rid of it and move on.
Exactly! One beautiful thing (among many) about an older used car, is that a modest problem can go ignored, without being repaired; and if a major repair is needed, the car gets towed to the metal-recycler (after stripping of the juicy spare-parts, of course).
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewUser
Hmmmm. I'd like to see you walk into a BMW dealership and buy a brand new $80,000 car for $64,000.
The person in question might be a fantastic negotiator. But in the bigger picture, if we wait 10 years, that $80,000 car will be $8,000.
My current and all prior cars were used. My next car will be new. I'm a low mileage driver and I hope to keep the new car for at least 15 years. Having a 10 year warranty and knowing how the car was driven (only by me) is worth the extra costs and depreciation. I'll finance and pay it off early.
I'm typically a used car buyer. Before I buy a car, I read model specific forums to understand common problems, modifications, and ease of maintenance. I usually buy the shop manual to study the car before I buy the car as well. You're right there are certain cars that hold their value; typically they are cars that do not have competition in their class or are drastically different from model changes. Therefore used Miatas, Tacomas, and Jeeps tend to retain their value. Think about it, none of the former vehicles have changed since their inception and so older models don't lose their utility value.
Here are the last few vehicles I bought:
2001 VW Golf TDI GLS 5-speed - bought in 2004 w/80K miles on it for $9,500...$11,000 below MSRP when new. I currently have 300K miles on it and it drives better than the day I bought it.
2007 Lexus Rx400h - bought in 2012 w/ 80K on it for $20K...$27K below MSRP when new. Currently have 180K miles on it.
2013 Fiat 500e - bought it earlier this year w/ 24K on it for $7,300...$23K below MSRP when new. Currently have 40K miles on it.
Never had any problems with our cars and maintenance has been incredibly cheap. I will keep buying used.
Nobody here including myself has any idea what a used car actually sold for. All they can see is the asking price. Unless they bought it nobody knows the actual sold price. People need to differentiate between asking price and sold price. What a seller dealer or pp is asking for a vehicle means absolutely nothing. Why? Because the buyer is the guy with the cash.
I would treat any vehicke I'm looking at the same. Detailing etc is fine but I dint care. I can get a car detailed for 120-150 bucks. Look up the cars value and offer wholesale. Prepare to battle it out. If the price isn't what you want then get up and walk away. There are thousands of thatmodel available for sale every day.
I don't know why peolle fixate on a particular vehicle. Wanna buy a 2010 diesel whatever? There are iterally thousands for sale.
Nobody here including myself has any idea what a used car actually sold for. All they can see is the asking price. Unless they bought it nobody knows the actual sold price. People need to differentiate between asking price and sold price. What a seller dealer or pp is asking for a vehicle means absolutely nothing. Why? Because the buyer is the guy with the cash.
I would treat any vehicke I'm looking at the same. Detailing etc is fine but I dint care. I can get a car detailed for 120-150 bucks. Look up the cars value and offer wholesale. Prepare to battle it out. If the price isn't what you want then get up and walk away. There are thousands of thatmodel available for sale every day.
I don't know why peolle fixate on a particular vehicle. Wanna buy a 2010 diesel whatever? There are iterally thousands for sale.
Totally agree with not focusing on the asking price - but that applies to both new and used.
As far as "look up the cars value and offer wholesale" that is easier said than done. Unless you are in the business of buying and selling cars every day, attend auctions to see what cars sell for, etc, there is no easy place to get that information. Even BlackBook/NADA/KBB values are not really all that accurate on many thngs.
More often than not the actual wholesale price (what the dealer actually paid for the car at auction) is closer to 80% of what the wholesale value shown in those books. (Even more of a spread on what some of these "wholesale" values are online.)
So dealers love the customer stampeding through the door stating "I see the wholesale value or invoice on that new car is XXX so that's what I will pay you for it." That's why they usually say yes to that offer instantly. Nothing better than selling a car for a good profit *AND* your customer thinks they got a great deal. That means they will come back next time. Win-win for everyone.
If you are kinda handy and don't mind working on your vehicle, financially, buying used is a HUGE advantage over buying new(as long as you get a good deal on the used purchase).
If you want to be as trouble-free as possible with regards to your vehicle, get a new car that is highly reliable and has an excellent warranty.
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