How many miles is too many miles (diesel)? (gaskets, plugs, fuel)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Subscribed, I’m very interested in this. I have a 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel, or JGC CRD in shorthand. It has 43K trouble-free miles on it now and I plan to keep it for a very long time. I want at least 300K, and would love to get 500K out of her. I am 56 years old so maybe, at 20K miles per year, just maybe this JGC CRD could be the last car I’ll ever need to buy. If, God willing, I live to my mid-80s, that’s 600K miles.
Maybe I drive more like 30K a year and get 1M miles out of my JGC CRD! It’d be cool if I check back on this thread in the year 2047 to report in with my 1 millionth mile, wouldn’t that be cool.
Keep up on the oil and filter changes and make sure you drain the water separator (if it has one). You’ll most likely be replacing transmissions/clutches over time. And probably a few interiors. Most Diesel engines if mainta8ned outlast the vehicke they are surrounded by.
One thing my uncle told me is torque converters do break up internally and need to be replaced. Mine was starting to do that. He replaced it. The transmission stilll works great at 180,000.
I see these 7.3s being sold with 300-350,000 miles for average of 13,000
Paid $12,000 for a VW Jetta TDI with 103,000K back in 2010. Dealer stood behind car, car worked flawlessly, no problems until.....I let my mother in law borrow it one day and she forgot it was a diesel. Regular gas doesn't work so well in a Diesel. Thank God VW created an automatic cutoff when it didn't sense the right fuel was being added. However, it isn't 100% fool proof. They still have to flush the engine and chances are it's not going to be once, maybe twice before it starts running back to normal. I have to stand up for it though, excellent vehicle if you can get one. Leather interior was built like rhino skin, no diesel smell in cab whatsoever, and even after 3 engine flushes over 100K it ran like a beauty. I even made it from Charleston, SC to Atlanta, GA on less than half a tank. I'll gladly pay $3.50 to get that kind of mileage any day of the week!
Ouch! My wife knows the difference but she has MS and some days her brain is a bit foggier than others. I could see her making this mistake one day.
To the others talking about trucks. I am just as much interested in a diesel truck as a diesel Jeep or VW. Having a diesel would be a nice change for a while. My issue is many people like to modify their diesel trucks and then abuse them. My brother-in-law was one of those guys with a 800hp diesel truck. Very fun and fast! However it was very expensive to repair when things went south. I do not need that kind of power nor have that kind of money. I do miss driving it though.
How many miles is too many? The general consensus for diesel engines is they're just getting broken in around 200k miles? What about the transmission in these vehicles (usually heavy duty)?
How about the VW diesel?
I have owned several Subaru's with well over 200k miles and they ran great when sold. Some are still driving around town north of 300k miles. Same goes with a couple 80's GM square body trucks.
Depends on the engine. Ask what the B50 rated life is.
On the Cummins B6.7 that some have referenced here that engine's B50 rating is 250K miles. (B50 is the average life to overhaul. The B6.7 is not a sleeved motor, either, so it's basically a throw-away engine once it goes.)
Also, while I would trust a diesel engine to last a long time I would NOT trust the aftertreatment system to do the same. The older those get the more problems they will have. Those DPF/SCR related-repairs aren't cheap, either...
Meh. The whole just broken in imo is bs. It depends how the vehicle was used and maintained. If the truck was used for 200,000 miles and it pulled 14,000 pounds a day every day that truck is worn out at 200,000 miles.
If the truck was used as a grocery getter 200,000 might as well be nothing.
I have a GM truck with a 350 V8 that at 393,000 is finally burning oil. Has power runs and is still drivable but the engine is getting worn out. So I’m getting ready to pull it and rebuild it. I could probably hit 400,000 plus but I don’t see the point. Most cars today should easily hit 250,000 miles if they are maintained
You aren't the only one who says that. All the expert mechanics I've heard say the same thing - "breaking in" an engine has not been a "thing" for at least 50 years.
There is also a lot of agreement on how to wear out an engine. Hard acceleration, heavy tow loads, and infrequent oil changes are probably the biggest culprits. Changing oil frequently, avoiding regular hard accelerations, and avoiding heavy tow loads (which kind of act like a hard acceleration) increase engine life. If you are towing, you take your time getting up to speed, and keep it steady. Higher speeds will also put wear load on an engine. What is a "higher speed" depends on the vehicle. It depends on horsepower, load, and air resistance, but at some point, for the engine to produce enough horses to overcome air resistance becomes a major wear load all by itself. E.g. you can be fine at 60-70, but pushing it to 90 will create a LOT more wear.
Long story short: most engines today, if you take care of the engine, the body will rust out before the engine will wear out. Obviously, that also depends a lot on the original engine design and manufacturing quality.
Speaking as a former diesel mechanic (for 16 years):
The engine is only one part of the vehicle. Even with a perfectly reliable engine, there are plenty of other things to break on a vehicle: Transmissions, drivetrains, suspension, brakes, ELECTRONICS.
These days- with proper maintenance- even most *gas* engines will outlast the rest of the vehicle. Diesel fuel costs more than gas... canceling out much of the fuel mileage benefit. Vehicles with diesel engines cost more, require more maintenance, and repairs are A LOT more expensive.
Now if you're towing a 10,000+ pound trailer across the country, a modern diesel pickup will do a spectacular job. There's nothing better. And for commercial applications, diesel engines are the ONLY reasonable choice most of the time.
But for a vehicle you just drive to work? Here in the U.S. there just no *practical* reason to own a diesel. Granted if you live outside the U.S. where diesel is much cheaper than gas, it makes sense. If you're an enthusiast or if you're burning french fry oil, it can make sense. But 95% of consumers will be better served with a run-of-the-mill gas engine.
You aren't the only one who says that. All the expert mechanics I've heard say the same thing - "breaking in" an engine has not been a "thing" for at least 50 years.
There is also a lot of agreement on how to wear out an engine. Hard acceleration, heavy tow loads, and infrequent oil changes are probably the biggest culprits. Changing oil frequently, avoiding regular hard accelerations, and avoiding heavy tow loads (which kind of act like a hard acceleration) increase engine life. If you are towing, you take your time getting up to speed, and keep it steady. Higher speeds will also put wear load on an engine. What is a "higher speed" depends on the vehicle. It depends on horsepower, load, and air resistance, but at some point, for the engine to produce enough horses to overcome air resistance becomes a major wear load all by itself. E.g. you can be fine at 60-70, but pushing it to 90 will create a LOT more wear.
Long story short: most engines today, if you take care of the engine, the body will rust out before the engine will wear out. Obviously, that also depends a lot on the original engine design and manufacturing quality.
I keep my vehicles stock. Sure if something breaks I’ll get a aftermarket piece if it’s better (fir example one of my trucks needs a waterpump. 180,000 out of the original one. ) I looked at the radiator and it looks like it’s on it’s way out. Besides radiators today are throw away, I called a radiator place to have it riddled out and the guy said if it has plastic tanks they don’t do it. So I’ll replace the radiator, waterpump, thermostat, upper and lower radiator and heater core hoses. I’m getting factory parts wth the exception of the radiator which will be a all aluminum welded job. All and all it’s gonna run about $750 in parts add8ng coolant etc. . About 2/3 hours of my labor. But I should get another 180,000 miles out of the cooling system. Still cheaper than buying a new car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired in Illinois
This speaks volumes to car / engine reliability in general.
Treat it bad or ignore it's needs and any car / engine will fail early.
Not much else can be said that makes any difference.
I din5 think it matters what brand of vehicke you buy. If you don’t maintain it it’s gonna break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head
Speaking as a former diesel mechanic (for 16 years):
The engine is only one part of the vehicle. Even with a perfectly reliable engine, there are plenty of other things to break on a vehicle: Transmissions, drivetrains, suspension, brakes, ELECTRONICS.
These days- with proper maintenance- even most *gas* engines will outlast the rest of the vehicle. Diesel fuel costs more than gas... canceling out much of the fuel mileage benefit. Vehicles with diesel engines cost more, require more maintenance, and repairs are A LOT more expensive.
Now if you're towing a 10,000+ pound trailer across the country, a modern diesel pickup will do a spectacular job. There's nothing better. And for commercial applications, diesel engines are the ONLY reasonable choice most of the time.
But for a vehicle you just drive to work? Here in the U.S. there just no *practical* reason to own a diesel. Granted if you live outside the U.S. where diesel is much cheaper than gas, it makes sense. If you're an enthusiast or if you're burning french fry oil, it can make sense. But 95% of consumers will be better served with a run-of-the-mill gas engine.
I got my diesels because I needed trucks tha5 can tow heavy weights for long distances reliably and economically. You couldn’t get me to buy a new diesel today. The purchase costs, maintenance and repair costs on today’s diesels are astronomical. Hell just the diesel option runs about 9,000 bucks.
I got my diesels because I needed trucks tha5 can tow heavy weights for long distances reliably and economically. You couldn’t get me to buy a new diesel today. The purchase costs, maintenance and repair costs on today’s diesels are astronomical. Hell just the diesel option runs about 9,000 bucks.
Yeah, emissions control systems have done diesel engines no favors.
I mean any electronic diesel is going to be expensive and beyond the capabilities of most DIY'ers to work on. Then they dump a bunch of heat and crud right back into the engine via an EGR system. Add a catalyst and DPF... and a rube goldberg system of valves, sensors, and computers to manage it all. Then there's the SCR system- which is actually kindof a good thing in terms of engine performance and durability (allows less EGR to be used)- but boils down to yet ANOTHER rube-goldberg system of valves, pumps, sensors, and controllers to be managed. Plus one more fluid you have to fill up, another system to maintain. Not to mention the common-rail fuel system...
But they sure do tow nice
There comes a point in any design where it becomes too complex to manage reliably. Like the spaghetti-bowl vacuum systems lots of vehicles used in the 80's to meet emissions while still using pre-WWII carburetor technology. They were finicky even when new- and people were removing smog control devices and plugging vacuum lines even on relatively new vehicles just to get them to run acceptably. At some point all the auto manufacturers realized that it was cheaper/simpler/better to just go with a multiport fuel injection- a huge improvement and pretty well universal for 25 years or so.
I think we're approaching a similar inflection point with diesel engines- there HAS to be a simpler alternative to this EGR/SCR/DPF madness. Might turn out to be electric. Or CNG. Hard to say at this point- but the more complex and expensive diesel engines become, the more appealing those alternatives will look.
For the first 11 years, I average 6-7K miles per year, and I was very happy with it. Then the 12th year I took a job in which I travelled ~25K miles per year. Normal fuel and maintenance is fairly high with a diesel, and I understood and accepted it, but that first year of traveling cost me an extra $9K in unscheduled repairs! Year two: An extra $10K in repair bills. Year three: It was headed there. The dealer found a couple things that would have pushed the repair that year to $9.5K. Keep in mind, this is all for unscheduled repairs, not fuel, oil, and tires. Those were all extra, and they're not cheap on a full-sized truck. Tires run $1,200 for a set, oil changes are $100+, fuel was ~16 mpg, and diesel is usually costlier than gasoline.
My repairs were usually in the $1,000-$1,500 range each, so when I was only driving it 6-7K per year, repairs weren't too bad. Usually one per year, $1,000-$2,000. When I started driving it 25K per year, with mileage already at around 75K, it got worse. I don't have time to work on my cars, so everything went to the shop for repairs. After year 3 I realized these repairs were the norm. I traded for a Prius. It's not my first choice for a vehicle, but it was like getting a huge raise. I haven't spent a dime on repairs since getting it, and fuel and routine maintenance cost 1/3 what they did for the truck. The truck only had 151,000 on it when I traded it. Problems started getting bad after 100K miles.
To sum it up, if you don't intend to drive the truck much, maintenance will probably be acceptable, but don't plan to drive it a lot or you might be ahead to buy a $60K new one! Others will report better results, but I know how to drive and have been driving for 50+ years. The truck was not abused. I think I may have had some bad luck, but I did everything I could to make it last.
What kind of repairs? (out of curiosity)
I've never spent more than $85 on an oil change, which my diesel only requires every 7,500-10k miles or so. Fuel filters cost me $46 and get changed every other oil change. Tires.... yes they're $1,200 but so are the tires on my '14 Expedition so really no difference there.
Diesel fuel is higher than gasoline, but considering my 2500 gets around 18 mpg where my Expedition gets 15 mpg, the difference is pretty much NIL.
As far as unscheduled repairs.... I worked for International and we rarely worked on a 7.3 Powerstroke. We did work on the 6.0 and 6.4L weekly. The only real issues we saw on the 7.3 were cam sensors and the occasional injector or PCM failure. Aside from that, they just went.
If you had that many repairs, it sounds like a lemon for sure. I used to drive my dad's old 95 Powerstroke. It had well over 250k miles on the clock and ran like a top.
Yeah, emissions control systems have done diesel engines no favors.
I mean any electronic diesel is going to be expensive and beyond the capabilities of most DIY'ers to work on. Then they dump a bunch of heat and crud right back into the engine via an EGR system. Add a catalyst and DPF... and a rube goldberg system of valves, sensors, and computers to manage it all. Then there's the SCR system- which is actually kindof a good thing in terms of engine performance and durability (allows less EGR to be used)- but boils down to yet ANOTHER rube-goldberg system of valves, pumps, sensors, and controllers to be managed. Plus one more fluid you have to fill up, another system to maintain. Not to mention the common-rail fuel system...
But they sure do tow nice
There comes a point in any design where it becomes too complex to manage reliably. Like the spaghetti-bowl vacuum systems lots of vehicles used in the 80's to meet emissions while still using pre-WWII carburetor technology. They were finicky even when new- and people were removing smog control devices and plugging vacuum lines even on relatively new vehicles just to get them to run acceptably. At some point all the auto manufacturers realized that it was cheaper/simpler/better to just go with a multiport fuel injection- a huge improvement and pretty well universal for 25 years or so.
I think we're approaching a similar inflection point with diesel engines- there HAS to be a simpler alternative to this EGR/SCR/DPF madness. Might turn out to be electric. Or CNG. Hard to say at this point- but the more complex and expensive diesel engines become, the more appealing those alternatives will look.
I mainly drive my diesel to and from work. However, I have a 5th wheel camper in the driveway that requires me to have the truck to pull it when called upon.
I really dislike the EGR systems on the diesel engines and the expense when they break so I always delete those things and allow the engine to function as intended. (No emission inspections in AL) My 6.7 Cummins is very simple in those terms. No EGR, no NOX sensor, and no DPF to bother with. The truck averages 18 mpg and is scary reliable. If only the truck that it sits in was as reliable as that engine. I can't really agree that there is no practical reason to own a diesel. There are many if you can set them up properly. Gas engines just won't do the things I need mine to do.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's not my first choice for a vehicle, but it was like getting a huge raise. I haven't spent a dime on repairs since getting it, and fuel and routine maintenance cost 1/3 what they did for the truck. The truck only had 151,000 on it when I traded it. Problems started getting bad after 100K miles.
