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I thought that it does burn with fewer emissions than gasoline, that's why they add it to summer mixtures?
those laws were put in place before they realized that the sensors used to detect gasoline emissions couldnt detect alcohol emissions. even after they found this out, they havent changed the rules, in part to cover the extra demand for gasoline in the summer driving season.
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It is only renewable (on a large enough scale) if it takes less fuel (in the John Deere Combine, in the 18 Wheeler to the grain bin, in the locomotive to the ethanol plant) to produce it than it yields.
your concept of renewable is a bit warped. if we run out of crude oil, there i no more, we cant make it. however with alcohol we CAN make more since it is grown. the problem is that too many people are concentrating on one source of the base to make alcohol, that being corn, and not ALL sources for a base to make alcohol. and remember not all feed corn goes to make fuel alcohol either, some goes to make whiskey and other drinking alcohols.
you guys are only looking at one thing and trying to rationalize your hate for ethanol, reality check here, i have already noted the benefits to corn ethanol, and they have been known for decades, but you are ignoring them.
as for damaging engines, that is pure rubbish, i have dealt with alcohol fuels for decades as well, the only issues i have run across is fuel system parts that are not designed to handle ethanol, since alcohol is a solvent. once ethanol proof fuel lines are installed, and ethanol proofing is done in the rest of the fuel system is done, ethanol is quite a viable fuel.
those laws were put in place before they realized that the sensors used to detect gasoline emissions couldnt detect alcohol emissions. even after they found this out, they havent changed the rules, in part to cover the extra demand for gasoline in the summer driving season.
your concept of renewable is a bit warped. if we run out of crude oil, there i no more, we cant make it. however with alcohol we CAN make more since it is grown. the problem is that too many people are concentrating on one source of the base to make alcohol, that being corn, and not ALL sources for a base to make alcohol. and remember not all feed corn goes to make fuel alcohol either, some goes to make whiskey and other drinking alcohols.
Actually that can be a positive attribute. By encapsulating the water which enters the fuel tank, it can be carried through the system in very small amounts and removed from the fuel system through the combustion process.
I know everyone has heard of "Heet". It's active primary ingredient is ethanol. With 10% ethanol fuel it is rendered unnecessary.
I do believe that it can be a problem for long term storage. I use Stabil in my yard equipment for storage. Never have a problem.
It does in fact raise the octane of fuel, which can be good for performance tuning and anti-knock properties.
It carries less energy than gasoline, so may lower MPG.
Now the elephant in the room: if it was economically competitive/effective, it would not require taxpayer subsidies. So yes, it is an agriculture subsidy. I'd feel a lot better about it if it could stand on it's own merits.
Last edited by shaker281; 12-19-2017 at 04:31 AM..
A lot of good posts here, however the underlying truth is that ethanol as an additive in gasoline was pushed by the corn farmer lobby. And who can blame them. They need the money like any other grower.
A lot of R&D went into making this medicine taste good, but it has created some legitimate concerns. This has created a secondary industry for additives to make the fuel "less detrimental".
A good example is the prohibition of its use in recip aircraft engines. The FAA doesn't want to force owner/pilots to risk their safety on a corn-subsidy scheme. If it's not good enough for airplanes, then why is it good enough for the family car?
Another example is boating. Increasing reliability risks by putting a questionable fuel in the tank could be a matter of life and death. If YAMAHA says ethanol should be avoided in outboards, I'm listening to them!
As long as the corn lobby has such influence over our government, we'll continue to put safety and reliability at risk in the name of imagined environmental causes.
those laws were put in place before they realized that the sensors used to detect gasoline emissions couldnt detect alcohol emissions. even after they found this out, they havent changed the rules, in part to cover the extra demand for gasoline in the summer driving season.
your concept of renewable is a bit warped. if we run out of crude oil, there i no more, we cant make it. however with alcohol we CAN make more since it is grown. the problem is that too many people are concentrating on one source of the base to make alcohol, that being corn, and not ALL sources for a base to make alcohol. and remember not all feed corn goes to make fuel alcohol either, some goes to make whiskey and other drinking alcohols.
I understand what you're saying. It isn't that its warped, its that on a long enough time scale, your walking backwards against the escalator, no?
something else that has been known for decades, but most people who are anti corn ethanol forget, is that there are corn stocks that are not edible by humans, but the ARE edible by farm animals. however even the farm animals have issues digesting those corn stocks in raw form.
however once these feed stocks of corn have been processed into ethanol, the mash becomes quite easily edible for farm animals, so in the end corn ethanol is a win win situation, people get fuel for their cars, and the animals get a feed stock they can digest without issue.
That is awesome to hear. It is recycling in a way. Most recycling takes some sort of energy to do it correctly.
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Originally Posted by Pilot1
Most people know about the Ethanol scam, but both Republicans, and Democrats support it because they want the votes, and political donations from corn farmers.
Oh really, next thing I know someone is gonna try to tell me water is wet.
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Originally Posted by rbohm
you guys are only looking at one thing and trying to rationalize your hate for ethanol, reality check here, i have already noted the benefits to corn ethanol, and they have been known for decades, but you are ignoring them.
as for damaging engines, that is pure rubbish, i have dealt with alcohol fuels for decades as well, the only issues i have run across is fuel system parts that are not designed to handle ethanol, since alcohol is a solvent. once ethanol proof fuel lines are installed, and ethanol proofing is done in the rest of the fuel system is done, ethanol is quite a viable fuel.
Exactly. Newer cars are ethanol ready. Cars that aren't ethanol ready, it is kind of like running on the wrong octane. Sometimes you go, sometimes you blow.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
Exactly. Newer cars are ethanol ready. Cars that aren't ethanol ready, it is kind of like running on the wrong octane. Sometimes you go, sometimes you blow.
My 2017 truck is flex-fuel and can run E85. I did some checking and found only one place within about 20 miles that sells it, and the price is about 50 cents a gallon more than regular fuel. According to many sources it decreases the mpg, so I'm not likely to pay more for something less efficient.
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