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Old 01-01-2018, 01:08 PM
 
154 posts, read 174,245 times
Reputation: 59

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I have a 2007 Toyota Sienna with 285,000 miles. Good news and bad news.

I plowed over a street sign in the median during a cross-country road trip a few months ago. It became dislodged under my car and caused a radiator leak and maybe damaged the bracket on which the radiator sits. So I drove off. A day later, the check engine light went on for the first time ever, and the engine/tranny started slipping, as it were on ice every 10 minutes or so.

The Toyota dealer veteran mechanic did not want to touch it. He said the leak was most likely coming from my lower hose or the clamp at my my lower hose from what he could see (he got under the car). He said since the hose had never come off, there would be a lot of prying on a car this old to get it off, and that may bend or break off the radiator bracket on which the radiator rests. If that happened, I would be in serious trouble and my cross-country trip would be over. Better that I get home first and do it there, in case something goes wrong. The service writer said that he also had no hose in stock, since nothing ever goes wrong with Toyota hoses. So I left and bought 10 gallons of genuine red Toyota Super Long Life (SLL) coolant the next night for $20 each at a different dealer, who had a parts coupon.

So in the meantime I have been adding 1/2 to 1 quart of coolant per day. Until I recently discovered O'Reilly full-strength green anti-freeze at only $15 a gallon (so just $7.50 per gallon when I add water).

But it gets worse:

Just the other day, driving 30 minutes home on the interstate at 70-75 mph, the car was overheating. I checked, and the radiator cap was part ways off! Either I must have left it loose the other day when I checked it, or it came off by itself?? Do radiator caps come off by themselves? The cap and neck looked fine to me.

There was coolant all over the battery, air cleaner housing, circuit breaker covers, etc. I immediately filled the overflow tank, put the cap back on, and drove off. Within a minute, it overheated again! Then it went to no or 0 temperature in literally 1 second! I watched the dial shoot down! Then it went to Red/overheat a minute later, then back down to 0. WTF? I pulled over and saw the overflow tank was still full, so I proceeded to drive. Then my engine started making a weird noise whenever I accelerated. As I pulled of the highway, the car turned off by itself. The engine and coolant were hot, but the heater was blowing ice cold air!!!

Then I noticed the overflow tank was empty. So I added coolant there and directly to the radiator neck. It went in and there was a ton of air bubbles. I started to fill it but it was a slow process.

I said I will have towed home and just add coolant the next day when it is daylight out. And this would give the engine a chance to cool without me cracking the engine case due to cold coolant.

So the next day I opened the radiator cap and filled it. Lots of air bubbles. I brought to operating temperature, and the gauge stayed there!! The problem is it the heater still blew cold, even when the coolant was hot. But the good news was there was no more check engine light!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I had the cap off the whole time for like 30 minutes and both heaters running at full throttle, so any air bubble should have been removed, right?? How is it possible the coolant is hot, the gauge is at operating temp, and the radiator fan is running, but the heater only blows ice cold?

I went for a test drive and it was fine except for the heater issue. Although it may have reached operating temperature a little too fast; I am not sure. But once it got to operating temperature, the dial stayed put.

I bought more coolant, and now have 8 gallons pre-mixed in my passenger floor, ready to use! It is green instead of red, but the bottle says it is long life and compatible with all models. And the Toyota manual gave me permission to use another antifreeze as well as long as it were non-SNAB (silicate, nitrate, amino, borate) and had organic mechanisms inside it. So I bought the Prestone brand on sale and mixed with Walmart distilled water for $0.88 per gallon.

So how do I make it blow heat again?

And did the radiator cap come off by itself or was it me, who took it off the day before?

And if the radiator support bracket come off or loose, how much will it cost to fix this?

Should I fix the hose leak and risk damaging the bracket, or just keep adding up to 1 quart of coolant each day for life? [And yes, Toyotas do last for life. I just read an article the other day.]

Why does the check engine light suddenly no longer come on after 2 months of being on 95% of the time?


Thanks!

Last edited by mileena202; 01-01-2018 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:42 AM
 
Location: NW San Antonio
2,982 posts, read 9,803,724 times
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Any car will last, if you maintain it, and take care of it. Running over a sign, and breaking some connections/hoses whatever is broken is not maintaining it. If the mechanic says there's too much to mess with, and all youre doing is adding lost coolant, youre creating a problem. The heater hose could be broken, kinked so the hot coolant doesn't circulate through it. You haven't stated if the vehicle leaks while sitting idling, and if so how much. To drive a vehicle, that has sustained radiator and transmission damage is destructive to your engine. All it takes is one overheating session to ruin the engine. The engine light, bulb could have burned out. The radiator cap, you probably didn't tighten it completely. If you love the vehicle, spend the money and get it fixed before you blow the engine and tranny up. If not, keep spending $100 every two weeks until it siezes up and dies.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,395,586 times
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And did the radiator cap come off by itself or was it me, who took it off the day before?

And if the radiator support bracket come off or loose, how much will it cost to fix this?

Should I fix the hose leak and risk damaging the bracket, or just keep adding up to 1 quart of coolant each day for life? [And yes, Toyotas do last for life. I just read an article the other day.]

Why does the check engine light suddenly no longer come on after 2 months of being on 95% of the time?


So how do I make it blow heat again?

Based on your story, I wold say this is caused by low coolant. If the coolant is full, hot, and circulating (ie thermostat is functioning) then your heater core is probably plugged up and needs to be replaced. It would be kind of odd for it to go bad just at this moment, but not unheard of. It also could be you are running out of coolant very quickly. When the coolant gets low, your gauge registers the heat because the coolant is in fact hot, but there is not enough coolant circulating to provide any warmth in the cabin. Low coolant often, but not always leads to overheating. However it pretty much always results in little or no heat in the cabin.

Heater cores are relatively inexpensive for most cars. installing them can take anywhere from an hour to a week for a shade tree mechanic, it depends on the car. Some are pretty easy, some require removing the dash. It could be a problem with the HVAC controls, but heater core is far more likely.

And did the radiator cap come off by itself or was it me, who took it off the day before?


It was you. You either left it off, or did not put it on properly. Radiator caps do not come off by themselves. They lock in place. Nothing but a human hand or a chisel is going to remove one. if extreme pressure were to build up the relief valve will blow, and then a hose or other component of the cooling system. A properly installed radiator cap is simply not coming off.

And if the radiator support bracket come off or loose, how much will it cost to fix this?

If it is loose and not broken, then it should not cost much. However it is probably broken. If it is broken, replacing it will probably cost more than the car is worth, unless the part is removable with bolts or screws. If it is molded or welded to the car, it is not worth replacing. Brace it up with C clamps or something, maybe JB weld. Some are just part of the radiator and bolt to the car. That is easy to replace as you are probably going to need to replace the radiator and all the hoses anyway. If you do the work, a rebuilt radiator and new hoses will probably cost you around $300. It depends on the car.

Should I fix the hose leak and risk damaging the bracket, or just keep adding up to 1 quart of coolant each day for life? [And yes, Toyotas do last for life. I just read an article the other day.]

You have to fix it. It will get worse, and/or you will forget to check it once and overheat and blow the head gasket if you did not do so already. You could try adding bars leak, but only if you are pretty much done with the car. Bars leak can plug up your cooling system and destroy your car, it can do nothing, or it can work like a miracle cure.

Yes a Toyota will last for life. The life of the car that is. In your case, the life of that Toyota may be 285,000 miles (meaning yours is probably dead). There is nothing magic about the Toyota marque stuck on your car. It is a machine and will last as long as it lasts. That can be 90,000 miles, or it can be 400,000 miles. Most are going to die in the 150,000 - 300,000 range. Anything more or less is exceptional. That is true of every car. There are lots and lots of hogwash articles about any kind of car out there. Hopefully you have figured out that not everything you read is based on truth.

Actually any car will last as long as you want it to. If you spend enough moeny, you can fix anything. Thus, conceptually, every car can last for your entire lifetime. However for all cars, eventually the cost of repair far exceeds the value or replacement cost of the car. That is what most people consider to be the end of the life of the car. Yours is there.


Why does the check engine light suddenly no longer come on after 2 months of being on 95% of the time?


There can be a ton of reasons for this. Sensors could have failed, it may no longer read whatever the problem was. You can get a car parts place to read the codes for you even if the light is no longer on. (First you will need to get the car running).

"Why are their bubbles when I fill the radiator?"

For every ounce of coolant you pour in and equal amount of air must come out. Bubbles while adding coolant is normal and means nothing. Now if you leave the radiator cap off after filling up the coolant, then run the car until the thermostat opens and then you see bubbles in the radiator, you have a blown head gasket. (Figure $2,500 - $3000 unless you do the work yourself.) When doing this test, wear safey googles and never ever lean over the radiator. A bubble can cause scalding hot water to shoot out and blind you. You will need a flashlight that you can shine into the radiator without putting your hand over the hole. One of the flexible lights works well. If you are getting air bubbles, it will be oblivious. You need to watch if tor a while. A random bubble is not unusual but bubbles at regular intervals is a problem. Sometimes it will be large slow bubbles, even as slow as one every ten or more seconds, sometimes small very fast bubbling.

Based on your story, I will bet that you blew the head gasket when you overheated it. BTW, a lack of bubbles does not mean the head gasket is not blown. It is just one test for a common type of gasket failure.


The "slipping" you describe is not likely to be related to your cooling system issues. Have you checked the transmission fluid? Did you damage the trans, or cause a leak when you hit the sign? It could also just be a sign of the transmission being old and dying. You can get it rebuilt/replaced for about $200 - $3000 for most cars.



Frankly, I would patch it up, start saving for a replacement and drive it until it dies (assuming it is not dead already. It will die. Could be in a week, a day or six months. Be ready. Oh and if it is cold where you live, keep an emergency kit in your car at all times (boots, gloves, hat, blanket, hand warmers - at a minimum).

It is probably time to call your local scrap dealer and see what you can get for it.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:02 AM
 
154 posts, read 174,245 times
Reputation: 59
UPDATE:


I put the car up on ramps, opened the radiator cap, and ran the car for about an hour. Lots of bubbles while I added coolant, and huge bubbles came out when the thermostat opened, causing the coolant to splash way high. As I added coolant, the splash became so high, that I was splashing out as much coolant as I was adding, so I lowered the car. Then I could add some more coolant.

Still, all this time, nothing but cold air from the heater. The gauge remained steady at operating temperature. Overflow tank was full and remained the same.

I am not happy, as all this was caused by me leaving the radiator cap loose. I have opened the cap hundreds of times, and never forgotten to fully close it.

I read on a BMW forum, the over flow tank must be completely full to the opening neck with coolant for you to properly bleed the system. And the cap of the overflow tank must be left off. They say it will be a messy job. Is this true?

They said you must also rev the car three or four times to force more air bubbles out.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:04 AM
 
154 posts, read 174,245 times
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Coldjensens:

Thanks so much for your long and thorough reply!

Everything you said makes sense. A few things:

I read that if you do not have heat when bleeding the air out when the car is on ramps or an incline, you do not have a blown head gasket. This is because all the air would be at the top of the system, near the radiator neck, and you should get heat while raised. Only when you lower the car to level, if you don't get heat then, then it is a blown gasket. So because of this, I suspect it it a bad heater core?

The other thing is, of course you are right: repair costs eventaully will cost more than the value of the car. But the value of the car does not matter to me since I am not going to sell it. It read that Click and Clack (Tom and Ray Magliozzi - the Tappet Brothers) say it is always cheaper to repair a car than buy a new car. That is what I am faced with. A new 2017 Toyota Sienna will cost me $25,000 at least, plus 4% tax. Registration is mostly paid for since I can transfer my current registration over. Insurance will be higher.

I am not rich, but have some savings and would pay the full amount in cash. I will be the near deplete of savings then. If I buy this car, at age 48, this will be the last (new) car I buy in my life. I need it to last 15-20 years. This is why I am hesitant to buy new right now. It has to be a minivan. I was homeless for 2 years from 2013-1014, and slept in the back of my minivan. That was the only thing that saved me. So I need to get a minivan again in case I wind up homeless again. I also travel a lot, and sleep in my van to save on hotel costs. I can't sleep upright in a sedan
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:13 AM
 
154 posts, read 174,245 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinsativ View Post
Any car will last, if you maintain it, and take care of it. Running over a sign, and breaking some connections/hoses whatever is broken is not maintaining it. If the mechanic says there's too much to mess with, and all youre doing is adding lost coolant, youre creating a problem. The heater hose could be broken, kinked so the hot coolant doesn't circulate through it. You haven't stated if the vehicle leaks while sitting idling, and if so how much. To drive a vehicle, that has sustained radiator and transmission damage is destructive to your engine. All it takes is one overheating session to ruin the engine. The engine light, bulb could have burned out. The radiator cap, you probably didn't tighten it completely. If you love the vehicle, spend the money and get it fixed before you blow the engine and tranny up. If not, keep spending $100 every two weeks until it siezes up and dies.
Thanks for some good tips sinsativ!

To be honest, where it leaks the spill is all over the lower part of the car, I cannot tell when it leaks: sitting, idle, or driving. I do know that if I left it sit for a few days extra, I don't have to add more coolant than usual. So it is probably only leaking when running or right after I turn it off?
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,702 posts, read 79,395,586 times
Reputation: 39425
Quote:
Originally Posted by mileena202 View Post
Coldjensens:

Thanks so much for your long and thorough reply!

Everything you said makes sense. A few things:

I read that if you do not have heat when bleeding the air out when the car is on ramps or an incline, you do not have a blown head gasket. This is because all the air would be at the top of the system, near the radiator neck, and you should get heat while raised. Only when you lower the car to level, if you don't get heat then, then it is a blown gasket. So because of this, I suspect it it a bad heater core?

The other thing is, of course you are right: repair costs eventaully will cost more than the value of the car. But the value of the car does not matter to me since I am not going to sell it. It read that Click and Clack (Tom and Ray Magliozzi - the Tappet Brothers) say it is always cheaper to repair a car than buy a new car. That is what I am faced with. A new 2017 Toyota Sienna will cost me $25,000 at least, plus 4% tax. Registration is mostly paid for since I can transfer my current registration over. Insurance will be higher.

I am not rich, but have some savings and would pay the full amount in cash. I will be the near deplete of savings then. If I buy this car, at age 48, this will be the last (new) car I buy in my life. I need it to last 15-20 years. This is why I am hesitant to buy new right now. It has to be a minivan. I was homeless for 2 years from 2013-1014, and slept in the back of my minivan. That was the only thing that saved me. So I need to get a minivan again in case I wind up homeless again. I also travel a lot, and sleep in my van to save on hotel costs. I can't sleep upright in a sedan
If you are getting bubbles when the thermostat opens that continue steadily, then you have a blown head gasket. Pretty much guaranteed.

Yes, it is always cheaper to fix a car one time than to buy a new one. But if you fix the head gasket then need a new transmission, then a new engine, then new brake calipers, then new tie rods and control arms, then a new CV joint, then wheel bearings, then . . . you get the picture. It is not one repair that you need to consider, it is the entire big picture. It is not always cheaper to do all the repairs than to buy a new car. Further, there many points between a completely thrashed out 285,000 mile beater and a brand new luxury van. You can get a decent used van for $5000. You can even get a pretty decent beater for $2500 and get five years out of it, if you get lucky. Just avoid Chrysler minivans from 1996 - at least 2003. Frankly I would avoid any Chrysler van older than 2010 if possible.

There are some sedans you can sleep in. Chrysler Towne Car for example. You can get nice ones for $3,000 - $5,000 if you are patient and look around a lot. They are great cars, hold up well, and get 26 MPG highway (as good or better than most minivans).
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:24 PM
 
154 posts, read 174,245 times
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UPDATE 2:

I scheduled a free diagnosis tomorrow morning for my Sienna a with a known and trustworthy mechanic. He said it would be safe to drive in the meantime over the mountains at 7,000 feet where I had a doctor's appointment at 1 PM (from Carson City to South Lake Tahoe, about 30 minutes away, you have to cross the Donner Summit).

So I drove just a few miles, still flat land, smelled coolant, then all of a sudden I had heat!! I then began climbing the summit for 10 miles. The car made it until the end where it suddenly overheated. I pulled over in an NVDOT lot. The overflow tank was still full, but this time coolant was spraying 3 feet out of the lower hose from under the clamp, so much so that my feet got all wet. Before it just dripped.

So after 15 minutes and cancelling my doctor's appointment, I turned around, headed downward all the way, and it no longer overheated. But I also lost heat again!!! And the operating temperature dropped a little, before beginning to overheat in a few minutes later! I pulled over at O'Reilly Auto, and carefully opened the radiator cap. The overflow tank was still full. I added more coolant slowly and bubbles kept coming out like crazy.

Thereon after, every I had to pull over every 1 mile or so since the car overheated, then came quickly down to operating temp once stopped.

Why is the overflow tank not filling the system all of a sudden?

Luckily, my mechanic is just 1/2 mile away, so I can drive it tomorrow AM to him.
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:34 PM
 
154 posts, read 174,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
If you are getting bubbles when the thermostat opens that continue steadily, then you have a blown head gasket. Pretty much guaranteed.

Yes, it is always cheaper to fix a car one time than to buy a new one. But if you fix the head gasket then need a new transmission, then a new engine, then new brake calipers, then new tie rods and control arms, then a new CV joint, then wheel bearings, then . . . you get the picture. It is not one repair that you need to consider, it is the entire big picture. It is not always cheaper to do all the repairs than to buy a new car. Further, there many points between a completely thrashed out 285,000 mile beater and a brand new luxury van. You can get a decent used van for $5000. You can even get a pretty decent beater for $2500 and get five years out of it, if you get lucky. Just avoid Chrysler minivans from 1996 - at least 2003. Frankly I would avoid any Chrysler van older than 2010 if possible.

There are some sedans you can sleep in. Chrysler Towne Car for example. You can get nice ones for $3,000 - $5,000 if you are patient and look around a lot. They are great cars, hold up well, and get 26 MPG highway (as good or better than most minivans).
Again, you make total sense. That's right: if parts start going, it's going to be a pain to have the car in the shop every month.

I will look at other cars. I prefer new, since the warranty is longer. Yes it does depreciate faster, but then again if I drive it until it's dead, the depreciation won't matter to me. Maybe I am wrong though. I will look at Chrysler. I never knew about the reclining feature.

I do prefer Toyota or Honda though, since the reliability factor is great. I drove the Sienna for about 15 miles while overheated in 2010 (long story), and all I had to do was replace a leaking water pump and add coolant. The car has been in multiple front end accidents and yet still holds up. I also have missed many oil changes, yet no problem (I have gone as long as 30K between oil changes on two different occasions--another long story).

I also can paint the rear back and rear middle windows black, so no one know I am sleeping in the car. I couldn't do that with a Chrysler Towne Car, since you can't cover the front side windows, and it would be suspicious anyway. But I get your point: look at other cars! ;-)

Crossing my fingers, but preparing for the worst.
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Between Heaven And Hell.
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All that needed doing, was to fix the hose, top up, run until hot, switch off, refill while cooling, and repeat until the heater worked.

I hope there aren't any cats around your neighbourhood!
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