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Old 05-26-2018, 06:04 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,002 posts, read 16,964,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Doubt that would be a big deal. Any of the early uses will be of the sort that such coverage is normal.

I personally carry 3 million. Don't see why 1 million would bother anyone.
It would be very hard to price. And I said $1,000,000 per victim not per occurrence. Meaning the insurance company would be on the hook in a big way if the unmanned vehicle plunges into a crowd.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:09 PM
 
2,761 posts, read 2,227,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer View Post
Here's the deal with self-driving vehicles the way I see it: you'd either need a hypothetical scenario where either everybody or nobody is using driverless technology to avoid the messy liability entanglements of whom is to blame when a collision occurs.
That's my viewpoint as well, it's either 100% driverless or not in order for it to work. And that includes motorcyclists, limo drivers, tow truck drivers, everyone except emergency like ambulance, police, fire, etc. But if and when we ever reach a driverless state, who is going to teach those who need to drive? And how will those who work in the emergency be able to keep up with their skills if they are not allowed to drive when they are not working?

And I've always wondered if it's ever going to change into 100% driverless what's the point of owning muscle cars, big SUV's, anything that might be considered a luxury car when you don't even get to drive it? I will be dead before we ever get to that point.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,335,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
It would be very hard to price. And I said $1,000,000 per victim not per occurrence. Meaning the insurance company would be on the hook in a big way if the unmanned vehicle plunges into a crowd.
Still not likely to be an issue. But then the AV truck people turn around and say the human driven trucks should have similar coverage.

At worst the makers of such truck form a pool and cover themselves. Maybe even unloading the really bad outcomes to the over insurers.

But not going to be a big problem.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:29 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,002 posts, read 16,964,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Still not likely to be an issue. But then the AV truck people turn around and say the human driven trucks should have similar coverage.

At worst the makers of such truck form a pool and cover themselves. Maybe even unloading the really bad outcomes to the over insurers.

But not going to be a big problem.
I think it would be a huge problem. Pricing drivers is relatively easy. Insuring technology for almost limitless liability not so much.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,780 posts, read 18,121,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Nope. The die is pretty much thrown at this point. There will be accidents between AVs and human driven vehicles. But the AVs will have a detailed record of what happened and will almost never be at fault.

I expect initial implementation will be long haul trucks or specialty vehicles with limited operational areas. But statistics will swiftly grow and the usage will expand. In the early 2020s they will become common.

Truck accidents are always on the owner. No way out with the human or the computer.


That detailed record will help the claimant. With human drivers it is hard to squeeze blood from a stone. Yes you can go after the little bit of insurance that many of the masses pay; but there are limitations on what one can really collect. With AI the claimants will go after the companies; they have more money and better insurance policies. Even the lack of a detailed record will be held against AI.



As far as long haul trucking; who is going to jump out and check when things go wrong? They can place multiple sensors on the trucks; but the more technology - the more that can fail. Our states and Federal Government might even legislate how many sensors. Some companies might even add additional sensors for safety. If your company takes the chance of adding additional sensors for safety; the government could then legislate the additional equipment and fine companies that do not maintain that equipment.



With AI the accidents can be on all the companies that made hardware, software, or the equipment - not just the owners.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:52 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,002 posts, read 16,964,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
That detailed record will help the claimant. With human drivers it is hard to squeeze blood from a stone. Yes you can go after the little bit of insurance that many of the masses pay; but there are limitations on what one can really collect. With AI the claimants will go after the companies; they have more money and better insurance policies. Even the lack of a detailed record will be held against AI.
You don't seriously think that the software developers and vehicle manufacturers won't shield their more affluent operations through the use of corporations and limited liability companies? We must ensure a solvent defendant exists.

Look what happened with WR Grace when Superfund liabilities came to roost?
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,780 posts, read 18,121,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
You don't seriously think that the software developers and vehicle manufacturers won't shield their more affluent operations through the use of corporations and limited liability companies? We must ensure a solvent defendant exists.

Look what happened with WR Grace when Superfund liabilities came to roost?

Of course everybody wants a safe haven; it just does not always work out that way. Harvey Weinstein was safe for most of his life and that changed overnight. It is hard to predict how all of this will play out; none of us have crystal balls. But I do think that it is safe to say, that if more money is involved, that more time and effort will go into the litigation (the greater the prize).
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:04 AM
 
Location: New York Area
35,002 posts, read 16,964,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Of course everybody wants a safe haven; it just does not always work out that way. Harvey Weinstein was safe for most of his life and that changed overnight. It is hard to predict how all of this will play out; none of us have crystal balls. But I do think that it is safe to say, that if more money is involved, that more time and effort will go into the litigation (the greater the prize).
The litigation against WR Grace was successful but bankrupted the successful attorney. Basically, a Pyrrhic victory.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:45 AM
 
8,081 posts, read 6,953,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
You don't seriously think that the software developers and vehicle manufacturers won't shield their more affluent operations through the use of corporations and limited liability companies? We must ensure a solvent defendant exists.

Look what happened with WR Grace when Superfund liabilities came to roost?
But now the manufacturers have to insure products previously insured by drivers. Heck they would have to pay and maintain excess lines. And what happens when a truly egregious accident happens and an attorney succeeds to “pierce the corporate veil” of the shell companies straight to the source?

You’ve also converted a negligence claim to a products liabiltiy claim, which in most states means strict liability and more available damages.

I think the insurance aspect of this is what might kill it.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:47 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,974 posts, read 26,996,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
You’d really need to compare total number of cars and miles driven when you are hrowing out stats
Exactly! When AI cars are across the country AND are even half as numerous, hell, 1/3 even and have driven even 1/3 as many miles on a daily basis as human controlled cars THEN there'd be stats worth paying attention to.

They need to be in diverse locations like NYC, the Midwest to see how they'll deal with really bad weather like heavy rain/snow/wind and some mountain/tourist locations during stupid tourist season then we'll have decent comparisons to decide how many deaths are acceptable...
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