Timing chain stretch and extended warranty (purchase, sell, Audi, engine)
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You need to stop getting quotes from the damn dealer.....
It simply DOES NOT cost $30k to replace an engine on a 2011 car. UNLESS you have an AMG engine, its simply not realistic. You would obviously get an engine from a wrecked car and go that route, but the dealer doesn't do that so youd go to an independent place.
You can try and get the dealer to fight for you, certainly they would be willing to at least call the warranty company as they stand to make lots of money on the labor.
Ultimately, from what ive seen with these "warranty" companies, they will not do anything unless something is physically broken. So might as well consider what money you spent on them wasted now. You know better than to buy these warranties.... everyone does.
Go to an indy (independent) shop that specialized in German cars. The labor will be cheaper (sometimes significantly) and they'll have much more flexibility in doing the repair (savings on parts, labor).
Get the timing chain replaced, drive it and get your moneys worth and then get rid of it. This is also a lesson in why you dont buy used expensive foreign luxury sedans. If you cant afford the 70k price when it was new, you shouldn't be buying it when it was $20k, or 16K. Its not like the repair cost will depreciate over time with the value of the car....
I purchased this vehicle new. I am not an inexperienced Mercedes-Benz owner. However, this was my first diesel, and it was apparently a mistake. It is not a sedan. Did you read my post?
I have two quotes. One from the dealer and one from the independent mechanic.
The Mercedes-Benz dealers in my area only replace with new engines. The problem with getting an OM642 from the junkyard is that they frequently have the same problem.
I already got rid of another OM642 powered diesel, but that one was purchased used and did not have a loan balance.
I purchased this vehicle new. I am not an inexperienced Mercedes-Benz owner. However, this was my first diesel, and it was apparently a mistake. It is not a sedan. Did you read my post?
I have two quotes. One from the dealer and one from the independent mechanic.
The Mercedes-Benz dealers in my area only replace with new engines. The problem with getting an OM642 from the junkyard is that they frequently have the same problem.
I already got rid of another OM642 powered diesel, but that one was purchased used and did not have a loan balance.
Do whatever makes the most financial sense. If you lose less money rolling the negative equity into another loan so be it. I dont think I would repair that engine if it cost more than the amount of negative equity you would have if you traded it.
I purchased this vehicle new. I am not an inexperienced Mercedes-Benz owner. However, this was my first diesel, and it was apparently a mistake. It is not a sedan. Did you read my post?
I have two quotes. One from the dealer and one from the independent mechanic.
The Mercedes-Benz dealers in my area only replace with new engines. The problem with getting an OM642 from the junkyard is that they frequently have the same problem.
I already got rid of another OM642 powered diesel, but that one was purchased used and did not have a loan balance.
Most reputable used engine suppliers should provide a 6month warranty. Get it from one and if possible use their recommended installer (I have done this when a shop slipped a tooth installing a new timing belt). Drive for a couple of months and see if it seems fine - if you have doubts sell the vehicle.
A lot of talk here about buying a new engine instead of replacing a timing chain?
OP, is the car in IL or GA? If IL, have you tried Gearheads for a diagnosis and cost estimate to repair? I know they have a location in downtown Glen Ellyn that I used to use when I lived there a few years ago. Great shop with strong bias towards MB & BMW.
Curious - what model is your car? I didn't see it in the other posts? I have a 14' W212 (E350 4matic sedan) myself that I bought last year as a CPO. Been a good car so far, but definitely staying a far from the dealership as I possibly can, even if it's covered under warranty! I have practically 0% faith in their quality controls, and their lack of knowledge on how to "repair" instead of "replace".
Case in point - Just YESTERDAY I had mine aligned for a road trip this weekend. 2 hours to get it done, and when I pulled away from the dealership, I heard "tick tick tick tick" that increased/decreased with speed. Back to the dealership I went for another 2 hour wait so the guy could fix what he did wrong, and they tried to charge me for that fix!
Took it last fall to a different dealership to fix a bent wheel and a SECOND attempt at fixing the rear spoiler lip that came undone a little. Took them a week. Picked up the car after being told all fixed - only to hit the highway to hear the same groaning noise. And the rear spoiler, yeah it was attached, and all scratched to hell and back. Took it to an indi the next day - guess what - bent rims. I reported that dealership to the MB HQ.
I've had a couple of other little things here and there as well, where the MB dealership had zero clue about. Like my seat being uncomfortable. Wanted to charge me nearly $4,000 to replace the lower cushion. I fixed it myself for $250 and it's been the most comfortable seat I've owned ever since.
Those little illuminated stars in the front grill that you see now? They can retrofit your car with one at the dealership. Guess how much mine wants to charge? $700 for just the part! Guess how much you can buy one and plug it in yourself for from Amazon? $50 bucks. Same damn part.
My point here - the dealership smells blood in the water with your situation. I'd call MB HQ about your warranty issue with the timing chain and see if they'll override the dealership's opinion and agree to replace it via a good-faith ticket. It's worth a shot here. If they won't, then I would NOT let them touch it going forward. Gearhead or similar at this point.
I agree that I would have the timing chain replaced as soon as you can do it, either attempting to go through Mercedes, a long shot; or, though an independent mechanic. I rarely go to a Mercedes dealer, but if I do, I go out of my way to one that my grandparents frequented, who have taken care of vehicles for my parents, other family, etc., and while not inexpensive, are not of the school that the solution is to rebuild the car one part at a time.
I have heard of the timing chain issue with that bluetec engine, but I do not know how widespread the failure rate has been. I would go to a couple of good independent mechanics for an estimate on all of the work needed to evaluate what's the best option with the vehicle. It may be cheaper in the long run to take a $7k loss than to spend the money to fix the vehicle now, assuming that you were to buy something that would not cost as much to keep on the road. The old diesels ran forever, but the Chrysler-era development diesels don't seem to have the same robust longevity, not without a good amount of work.
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All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
I am having significant problems with my only 7-year-old Mercedes-Benz BlueTEC diesel. My timing chain is stretched to the point of trouble starting, loud racket on cold start-up, and ticking noise when idling. The check engine light comes on periodically because of this. Unfortunately, this along with some of the other issues related to the oil cooler seals, this vehicle needs $6,000-$9,500 worth of work. These failures are all too common with this powertrain and are not a result of poor maintenance. In its current state, the car is apparently only worth between $9,000 and $12,000, even though this vehicle was ordered fully loaded and purchased for over $70,000 in 2011.
I have an extended powertrain warranty (VSC) on the vehicle. However, I recently called the provider with a hypothetical and I was told that a stretched timing chain was a maintenance item, while a failed timing chain was covered by the VSC. If the timing chain slips or breaks, the engine is a total loss. My maximum benefit is $12,500 or actual cash value. This engine is in the neighborhood of $30,000 to replace. When I explained to them that the timing chain is regarded by Mercedes-Benz as something that should last a lifetime (and is therefore not included in the maintenance booklet), they told me that Mercedes-Benz would be responsible for replacement. There is no way that Mercedes-Benz USA is going to accept responsibility for an out-of-warranty vehicle.
They ought to know that this is a lie. Many things on a vehicle should last a lifetime, but should they fail, they are not covered outside of the manufacturer's warranty period. I thought that was the entire point of purchasing a VSC! To make matters worse, because I refinanced the vehicle two years ago, I am slightly underwater. I am significantly underwater if I sell to Carmax, about $7,000 underwater.
How can the provider argue that this is a maintenance item if the manufacturer and dealer say that it is not a maintenance item? The VSC says that the policy covers the failure of internally lubricated parts. If I am having trouble with the vehicle because of this, how is it not a failure?
I am at a loss about what to do. Purchasing or leasing a new vehicle is not a realistic option at this time. Shelling out $9,500 in repairs on a $16,000 car also strikes me as irresponsible. Driving around in a vehicle with a stretched timing chain is nerve-wracking. Ideas or suggestions?
You have now learned the hard way the reason why extended warranties are sold. They do NOT exist to protect you from major vehicle repair expense. They exist to maximize revenue for the purveyor which purveyor does everything possible to avoid paying legitimate claims.
Some of you people write in response to my post like I was born yesterday or like I am cheap. I have personally owned and leased 6 Mercedes-Benzes in the past seven years. I am accustomed to the repair and maintenance expenses. We just spent over $7,000 on repairs and maintenance for a 2010 GL450 in our household. The problem in this situation is that there are expensive problems coupled with the potential for short-term reoccurrence. There is also the problem with the costs outstripping the value of the vehicle. This has nothing to do with being cheap. I am trying to balance finances and emotions. They could very well align.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NC211
A lot of talk here about buying a new engine instead of replacing a timing chain?
OP, is the car in IL or GA? If IL, have you tried Gearheads for a diagnosis and cost estimate to repair? I know they have a location in downtown Glen Ellyn that I used to use when I lived there a few years ago. Great shop with strong bias towards MB & BMW.
The reason that there is talk of buying a new engine is that the warranty would cover the expense of replacing the engine, but would not cover the cost of replacing the timing chain. It's very paradoxical.
This car is in Illinois, about an hour from Glen Ellyn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NC211
Curious - what model is your car? I didn't see it in the other posts? I have a 14' W212 (E350 4matic sedan) myself that I bought last year as a CPO. Been a good car so far, but definitely staying a far from the dealership as I possibly can, even if it's covered under warranty! I have practically 0% faith in their quality controls, and their lack of knowledge on how to "repair" instead of "replace".
This is a 2012 R350 BlueTEC (W251). It was one of the last of its kind in the States.
I would not worry about your W212. I have a W211, and it has been rock-solid. I find that most Mercedes-Benz owners are delighted with the performance, reliability, and durability of their cars. Unfortunately, I have an awful situation. The OM642 powertrain does not appear to be well executed by Mercedes-Benz. I gather that it has a lot of problems. I have heard this from dealers, mechanics, and other owners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NC211
My point here - the dealership smells blood in the water with your situation. I'd call MB HQ about your warranty issue with the timing chain and see if they'll override the dealership's opinion and agree to replace it via a good-faith ticket. It's worth a shot here. If they won't, then I would NOT let them touch it going forward. Gearhead or similar at this point.
Honestly, the dealers aren't saying much of anything different from my independent. MBUSA is not going to cover it. I don't agree that it is worth a shot. They have technical service bulletins out about all of this. They have had numerous (likely hundreds if not thousands) complaints about the oil cooler seals, timing chains, and AdBlue heaters.
MBUSA has already denied a warranty claim for me because an emissions repair was made outside of the dealer network. No one from Mercedes-Benz had informed me that this aspect of the car had remained under warranty.
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