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What's a Dodge Demon American?
Is it a special edition of the Demon?
How fast is a Demon on Road America or Nurburgring?
I'll give you a hint: a Hellcat, which has real front tire and isn't as hardcore drag setup, is still 15+ seconds slower per lap than a Civic Type-R on Nurburgring.
But, OP a big answer is this - a CTR is only 1 second slower around Nurburgring than a C6 Z06 or a 911 997 GT3 or a Murcielago LP670-4. It's faster than a SLS AMG
Nurburgring times have become essentially meaningless and the CTR's time has been widely discredited. We'll see how the CTR does in a more empirical, controlled environment like Car & Driver's next Lightning Lap. I predict 3:10s, if that.
For $40K, there are cars that are faster, more comfortable, handle better than you will ever be able to use anywhere but race track, and don't look like a caricature of themselves. The Type R is an amazing Civic, but it's still a Civic and isn't worth $40K. That being said, I'd consider one as a second car for hitting the twisties on weekends.
Last edited by YourWakeUpCall; 07-04-2018 at 06:38 AM..
And how does it compare to the Nissan 370Z? I’ve never been in one.
370Z is a 2 seater sportster, not a 4 seater (or 2+2).
Different constraints.
That said a modern muscle does not have the same constraints as a HH/SHH.
They all accelerate pretty fast, and go round corners pretty fast, and have extra legal top speeds. But, they all focus on different aspects of those things, as well as their own body stylings, layouts, and target audiences. Someone wanting a 2 seat sportster doesn't want a modern muscle, and probably not a SHH. Someone wanting a modern muscle doesn't want a 2 seater sport or a SHH. Someone wanting a SHH probably doesn't want a modern muscle, or a 2 seat sport.
Why don't they want these things? Because they have different circumstances and different interests (and no its not drifting, because you can't drift in a FWD or a AWD). If you have four reasonably sized people wanting transport, of the three options the SHH is first choice, followed by your MM Camaros and Mustangs, the 370Z needs an Uber as well as the car.
Saw a recent Motor Trend magazine article (print) comparing the four super hot hatches including the Civic Type-R and Golf R. Looks good until I saw the price. The base and as tested price were in the $40,000 range. For roughly the same level of power and performance they could spend roughly $10,000 less and get a Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, or 370Z. That price range offers a huge amount of choices, many of which offer similar performance. So why would someone want to buy one of these super hot hatches other than for rally or rally cross racing?
I'm 6'6" and fit better in a hot hatch than I do in a Mustang or Camaro and they also have more room to haul other people and things. But I get it, the Camaro is going to give you better performance for less than those hot hatches.
I'm 6'6" and fit better in a hot hatch than I do in a Mustang or Camaro and they also have more room to haul other people and things. But I get it, the Camaro is going to give you better performance for less than those hot hatches.
For the same price point the Camaro has 20 horses from a V6 3.6L and 300lbs more than the Civic Type R (from a 2.0L I4), without the track suspension set up and gearing.
Sure a 2018 ZL1 1LE (the equivalent Camaro range topper with reduced weight, and track focused suspension and gearing) has bags more power and probably equal handling as the Type R, it's also $33k more than the Civic Type R, and you still have limited head room (because the rag top doesn't exist in the 1LE trim). It will go round the Nordschleife in 7:16 plus change unofficial, which the Civic won't because it's not intended to.
Lol at the people pissing on hatches and coupes itt. We are in a world dominated by crvs and rav 4s yet you **** on Camaros and gtis?
Go out and test drive a manual miata, civic, gti, Camaro 1ss, and mustang gt. Tell me each of them don’t put a smile on your face for different reasons! You can get all for under $40k and have a great vehicle.
And how does it compare to the Nissan 370Z? I’ve never been in one.
Almost anything compares well to a 370z these days. But that's not really surprising. The 370z came out in 2009 and was a fairly moderate upgrade to the original 350z. The Camaro came out as a 2010 in early-mid 2009. The 370z is much more like the Camaro 5. Basic, good performance, rough around the edges. Problem is there's now the Camaro 6. The Camaro 5 is still a good car. The Camaro 6 does not radically outperform it. It's just a much nicer place to be. The interior ergonomics are better, it's got modern features, it's lost some weight and gained a bit of power, handles a little bit better. That's not so good for the 370z. It stacked up well with a 2010 V6 Camaro but a 2018 V6 Camaro is a better car. And then there's the options where it really falls on its face. A V6 Camaro 1LE falls in the narrow gap in performance between the 370z Sport and 370z Nismo. The 1LE package is $4,500. The Nismo package is $12,000. That leaves a 2LT 1LE Camaro down a few tenths of a second in acceleration, little to nothing in handling or braking, better equipped and $7,000 cheaper. The Nismo is much closer in price to a 2SS 1LE. I know which one I'd take for that kind of money.
For a daily, reliability withstanding, I'd still take a Golf R over a 2LT 1LE Camaro. It has nothing to do with performance. I just want a real back seat and practicality in a daily. Unless there's $10,000 on the hood of a 370z Nismo it's not even in the running.
Sure a 2018 ZL1 1LE (the equivalent Camaro range topper with reduced weight, and track focused suspension and gearing) has bags more power and probably equal handling as the Type R, it's also $33k more than the Civic Type R,
The Camaro 2.0T 1LE package car is a turbo 4 cyl Camaro that costs less than the Civic Type R and beats it on the track. I posted the comparison on the other page.
The base Camaro is barely outrunning an obese 50yr old marathon runner. Please let me know what drugs you're on so I can try to procure some for myself. They seem to be pretty potent.
Did you even follow the link and read the article? Or are you just spouting BS to make yourself feel good? I was showing the Camaro 2.0T 1LE package car that WON the SCCA national championship against the CTR and Golf R and Focus RS. And I was showing it to prove that it's handling ability in tight courses was on par (or superior to) the hot hatches for the same money. And the V8 version is even faster and handles as well.
Some of you just don't like facts, do you?
I'm not a Camaro guy. I just don't like ignorance.
I was big on hot hatches and imported sports coupes in the '80s when American muscle was lacking in style and ability. I've had a number of Hondas, Mazdas, and VWs. But the new ones are too expensive and just not desirable. As a CRX Si lover, I'm saddened that the CTR especially is a terribly ugly car, with way to many weird lines, creases and fake scoops front and rear, as the pictures I linked to showed. The Focus RS is better, but priced like a Mustang GT and I'd rather have the Mustang.
The Camaro 2.0T 1LE package car is a turbo 4 cyl Camaro that costs less than the Civic Type R and beats it on the track. I posted the comparison on the other page.
There's something off on the track data. The 2.0T produces 275 hp, 55 lower than Hondas 330hp. It weighs in at 3350lbs, 250 lbs heavier than the Type R. Now that doesn't prove that the Honda is faster, but, it's not looking good from the figures. It's possible that if the Camaro has lower drag coefficient and is geared for high speed, and it's on Daytona the Camaro may be quicker in a flying lap with the same driver, it's also possible that the Camaro driven by the Stig is faster on the Monaco F1 Circuit than my Great Aunt in the Type R. However the credibility is suspect.
There's something off on the track data. The 2.0T produces 275 hp, 55 lower than Hondas 330hp. It weighs in at 3350lbs, 250 lbs heavier than the Type R. Now that doesn't prove that the Honda is faster, but, it's not looking good from the figures. It's possible that if the Camaro has lower drag coefficient and is geared for high speed, and it's on Daytona the Camaro may be quicker in a flying lap with the same driver, it's also possible that the Camaro driven by the Stig is faster on the Monaco F1 Circuit than my Great Aunt in the Type R. However the credibility is suspect.
Did you follow the link to the article I posted? it's autocross, which is a tight course around cones. It rewards handling over everything, but rewards a lower powerband vs a higher powerband. it was to refute the statement that the Camaro and Mustang are only good around NASCAR high bank corners.
The Camaro 2.0T 1LE won the SCCA national championship last year against top drivers (your Great Aunt is not a nationally competitive SCCA driver) in CTRs and Focus RSs and Subaru WRXs. the comparison I posted was with national championship SCCA drivers in the cars, not the Stig vs your Great Aunt. I know you hate facts, but quit being insulting, Mr. Moderator.
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