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Smart move on the part of Ford: to focus on their most profitable products.
Sedans will always have a place but they are becoming a niche product similar to the 2-seat sports car. Other than looks, handling and slight gas mileage edge, is there any advantage that a sedan platform has over a crossover? Enthusiasts and special situations will mean sedans will stick around but with vehicle prices going up seems like the average American car buyer would go for the more flexible vehicle.
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Originally Posted by BugsyPal
Here in NYC same thing; in fact since this whole "sedans are dead" nonsense has been kicking around forum have made a point of noticing things on local roads/parked. As such am here to tell you at least in the NYC metropolitan area there is no shortage of late model to brand spanking new Lexus, Honda, Toyota, BMW, MB, Kia, Hyundai, Caddy, and whatever else sedans. Next up would be hatchbacks/wagons, but we're not on that right now.
NYC is a unique transportation environment and very unfriendly to larger vehicles compared to the rest of the USA.
I don’t know if Ford CANT compete. I mean they are a global company with access to everything all the other automakers have access to...including engineers from all over the world. How hard is it to take a Honda Accord or Civic, deconstruct it and make something similar yet better. They can probably easily do it but by the time the bean counters work over the design for profitability, they figured it wasn’t worth it.
There more profit in SUVs and pickups with is what Americans are buying sorry but even if Ford made something similar to a Honda Civic it’s still a sedan and they are not selling, why can’t people understand that sedans are on there way out, just because you see allot of Toyota’s and nissans and Hyundai’s there are twice as many SUVs and pickups and Ford and Chrysler know that and they know that Nissan and Toyota cannot compete with them in the pickup market we’re the big3 are tops in sales. Get use to it baby boomers are still the driving force in the big SUVs and pickups because they want something large since the larger sedans have gone away.
I don’t know if Ford CANT compete. I mean they are a global company with access to everything all the other automakers have access to...including engineers from all over the world. How hard is it to take a Honda Accord or Civic, deconstruct it and make something similar yet better. They can probably easily do it but by the time the bean counters work over the design for profitability, they figured it wasn’t worth it.
I think they are waiting to see how their new small EcoSport SUV is going to do here. Nice looking but wish they would offer it with a manual transmission like they do in other countries.
Once a car leaves the factory it is no longer Ford’s property, so Ford doesn’t have to worry about too many cars piling up on the balance sheet. Every car built is immediately sold to a dealer - and this transaction happens before the dealer even touches the car.
I understand your point.
At the same time, doesn't Ford finance the purchase? Perhaps it is called "flooring?" And the dealerships won't have space to accept more almost unsellable sedans?
And at Ford, there's all the tooling for those sedans... all the current product engineering... all the product planning... all the manufacturing lines... it could be a rough transition.
Smart move on the part of Ford: to focus on their most profitable products.
Clayton Christensen, a professor at Harvard Business School (and former CEO of a high tech ceramics company) wrote a very influential book titled The Innovator's Dilemma.
There more profit in SUVs and pickups with is what Americans are buying sorry but even if Ford made something similar to a Honda Civic it’s still a sedan and they are not selling, why can’t people understand that sedans are on there way out, just because you see allot of Toyota’s and nissans and Hyundai’s there are twice as many SUVs and pickups and Ford and Chrysler know that and they know that Nissan and Toyota cannot compete with them in the pickup market we’re the big3 are tops in sales. Get use to it baby boomers are still the driving force in the big SUVs and pickups because they want something large since the larger sedans have gone away.
They still sell a lot of sedans and I think at some point SUVs will reach saturation. That may end up with sedans sales continuing to fall and eventually holding steady at around 35% market share. That’s incredibly small compared to the past, but still a huge chunk of the market. Then of course you have outside factors like oil prices which could eventually lead to car sales bouncing off their lows. Despite more and more people preferring SUVs, another recession with $4-5/gas and a certain percentage of people will open their minds to cheaper cars that are better on gas. With platforms now being used globally, I would think that at any point in the future Ford could decide to quickly introduce nice new midsize/economy sedans. The last time that happened, Ford and GM were in a bad spot because their cars sucked.
Of course this could go in another direction and vehicles become so efficient that fuel cost don’t matter as much. Maybe in 10 years a lot more vehicles will be plug ins or SUVs are getting 20-30% better gas mileage. Maybe something like your average smallish SUV (Rav 4, Escape, CRV) will get 40 mpg on the highway and even the big Tahoe and such will be in the upper 20s.
At the same time, doesn't Ford finance the purchase? Perhaps it is called "flooring?" And the dealerships won't have space to accept more almost unsellable sedans?
And at Ford, there's all the tooling for those sedans... all the current product engineering... all the product planning... all the manufacturing lines... it could be a rough transition.
Yes, those vehicles are floored - by Ford Motor Credit Company or an outside bank depending on who the dealer chooses to use. Even if Ford Credit floors it, they essentially borrow the money at X% and then charge it to the dealer at Y%, so Ford Credit makes money on the spread and has essentially zero cash outflow in doing it.
All the tooling/variable expenses associated with a product program are essentially amortized to zero by the end of that product’s life cycle. Basically that means once the car is discontinued there are no more expenses to pay except the fixed costs like the plant itself, etc, but all of that is being re-used on the crossoveror SUV that will replace that outgoing sedan.
I’m telling you guys....everyone is way overthinking this. It truly is not that complicated. Bottom line is Ford shareholders want more returns than what can be made on sedans - even if Ford built the best sedans ever made. The margins are just too thin in those segments (or at a loss) and Ford does not currently have the capability to get a supply base who can help get the car’s material cost to an acceptable level.
I don’t know if Ford CANT compete. I mean they are a global company with access to everything all the other automakers have access to...including engineers from all over the world. How hard is it to take a Honda Accord or Civic, deconstruct it and make something similar yet better. They can probably easily do it but by the time the bean counters work over the design for profitability, they figured it wasn’t worth it.
Ford does NOT have access to everything other automakers have - especially the Asian companies. I’m primarily talking about the supply base and the material cost impacts that go with it.
Many of the companies who build parts for the Asian companies will not work with US or Euro OEM’s and even if they do the prices will be significantly higher. The Asian suppliers “take care of their own” and this has been a huge problem for many years. I do not say this out of heresy but as someone who’s spent a significant amount of time in contract negotiations with many suppliers.
It is not hard to tear down a car and build it the same way. It’s hard to do it at the same cost basis - that is the problem. It works in reverse with trucks and that’s why Honda hasn’t even tried to build a real F-150 fighter and why Nissan and Toyota can’t build high volume pickups, either.
Ford does NOT have access to everything other automakers have - especially the Asian companies. I’m primarily talking about the supply base and the material cost impacts that go with it.
Many of the companies who build parts for the Asian companies will not work with US or Euro OEM’s and even if they do the prices will be significantly higher. The Asian suppliers “take care of their own” and this has been a huge problem for many years. I do not say this out of heresy but as someone who’s spent a significant amount of time in contract negotiations with many suppliers.
It is not hard to tear down a car and build it the same way. It’s hard to do it at the same cost basis - that is the problem. It works in reverse with trucks and that’s why Honda hasn’t even tried to build a real F-150 fighter and why Nissan and Toyota can’t build high volume pickups, either.
So there you go - it’s not that Ford can’t make it, it’s just that they can’t make with profitability.
If supply and material costs are problem, hopefully all non-Asian manufacturers have been working together to reduce those costs.
I don’t know if Ford CANT compete. I mean they are a global company with access to everything all the other automakers have access to...including engineers from all over the world. How hard is it to take a Honda Accord or Civic, deconstruct it and make something similar yet better. They can probably easily do it but by the time the bean counters work over the design for profitability, they figured it wasn’t worth it.
.....and if UAW workers reassembled the Accord and Civic, they would be just as pathetic as anything else that spews out of Detroit. The only way GM, Ford and Fiat-Chrysler could ever be competitive in quality is to do away with the UAW, hire and train workers that have a good work ethic, and with the money they saved by losing the UAW cradle to grave leaches, could put that money in higher quality components.
If that would happen, even I might consider buying a Detroit 3 car again.
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