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Recently I checked out a few articles on gas vs diesel because of a random brain thought. Diesel engines mostly come in trucks, but I'm not that big into them due to the loss in mpg for obvious reasons. Plus I don't tow anything. A sedan is what I like, but Volkswagen seems to be the only manufacturer to produce a diesel sedan in the states (that I know of). What gives? I wish there was a larger market for them. I drive a Honda 4 cylinder, gas mileage is good but not great. No complaints, but I think I would like to try something different in the future. I'm really in it for the MPG. I'm always driving around. Is it the emissions that's a big issue? Or the repairs?
Yeah. They add a lot to the cost since diesel cars need urine bladders and sophisticated scrubbers. The only one that "didn't" was the Jetta, which only didn't because VW figured it was better to just cheat and hope they didn't get caught. Then they got caught.
Once you get the emissions out of the way they're slow, unresponsive, need said urine bladder to be periodically refilled, and don't get that great mileage. You're pretty much only got the Diesel Cruze left. It gets 37 combined versus 33 for the gas. That's not a huge difference when it's $2,000 more expensive. For another $2,000 there's a comparably equipped Prius which is rated for 52 combined. The diesel Cruze only comes relatively loaded, probably because it actually costs more than $2,000 more than the gasoline version to actually make.
Diesel can be annoying to find, not all gas stations have it. Plus you have to keep the urine topped up which isn't a huge deal but it's kind of annoying as most of them seem to use 2 gallons of urine or so every 5,000 miles. More of a minor nuisance as you can get DEF for $6 gallon, but like diesel you can't get it everywhere and it will usually cost more at a truck stop.
Gas is cheap. Way too much of a hassle to get 10% better fuel economy. Diesel has been consistently more expensive than gas for several years now as well. Varies state to state but 40-50 cents more per gallon isn't unccommon. Better mileage but depending where you live it won't save you any at the pump.
I know diesels used to known preferred for towing due to their power, but with modern gas engines in trucks, they come pretty close to the same output as a diesel.
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The Ford F150 3.5 Ecoboost puts out more torque than the new F150 diesel engine.
Emissions equipment has really taken a toll on diesel engines- more so than gas engines.
When they introduced EGR, that added a couple dozen more parts that can break. More codes to be set. And dumped a ton of heat and crud right back into the engine. Increased complexity, reduced performance, reduced reliability and durability... and for zero gain in performance.
DPF and catalyst systems were similar: more complexity, more stuff to break. Increased maintenance. Zero performance gain.
Now, common rail fuel injection was actually a good thing in terms of performance. The common rail engines- generally speaking- are quieter, more powerful, and more efficient than their counterparts with older fuel system designs. BUT at the cost of yet more complexity. And decreased reliability/durability.
And now we have the DEF systems. These are actually a.good thing in terms of performance. And not *entirely* bad in terms of engine durability. DEF systems allow diesel engines to meet NOx emissions standards with significantly less use of Exhaust Gas Recirculation. Better efficiency, better performance, less heat and crud being dumped back into the engine. BUT there is always a cost. DEF systems are a rube-goldberg device of pumps, heaters, injectors, and catalysts. HUGE increase in complesity and maintenence costs... not to mention the fact that you now have to buy DEF.
So these days when you open the hood on any diesel auto or equipment... it looks like you've opened a hatch on the goddamn space shuttle. None of these systems are particularly complicated in and of themselves. But if you haven't followed the progression of all the changes made to diesel engines over the past 30 years... good luck doing *any* work on them. The days of diesel engines being the simple, efficient, low maintenance alternative are long gone... unless you're willing to buy one that's 20+ years old.
Now don't get me wrong- I *like* diesel engines and I'm very good at working on them. I'm just saying that complexity and possible failure modes are increasing at an exponential rate. While performance is *at best* stagnant. These trends don't bode well for diesel engines in general.
This is true. My old 82 Audi 4000, open the hood and there is the engine, there are the fuel injectors, over here is the fuel filter, very simple. If it had any dedicated emissions gear, I never saw it or had to work on it. It did struggle to keep up with traffic in built up areas, although out in the country or on the Interstate (assuming no big hills and not at altitude) it cruised very well, you couldn't get to less than 40 MPG if you drove it like you stole it. But it was so slow, you could drive it like you stole it right in front of a cop, and the cop would not pay any attention to you.
I don't have any use for the new Diesels either. Well, I don't have any use for new vehicles anymore period, but that's a different topic.
I've had my CPO Jetta Sportwagen TDI for a couple months now. One of the best small cars I've driven. The previous generation Jetta is much more solid than most small cars today. The TDI engine is at its best on the highway with relaxed cruising and instant torque. The fuel economy advantage does disappear in city driving, but I don't get caught in traffic as much nowadays. There seems to be a loss of about 3-5% in fuel economy due to the changes in the ECU and transmission to make the car emissions compliant. However, my car seems to do worse in CA, probably the diesel formulation (2 mpg better in Nevada and Oregon).
Overall the car is a little slower than the 1.4-1.6 turbo gas engines of similar cars, but you don't have to rev the engine over 3000 rpm to get the low-mid range response. The small turbo gas engines are weak until the turbo spools fully (I've owned a 1.5 Ecoboost Fusion and drove a 1.4 turbo Chevy Cruze). You can feel the extra 40-60 lb-ft of TDI torque. It's a different driving experience and I like it.
I'm not a fan of the small turbo engines. The engines need to work too hard to achieve power. My Fusion never achieved the listed EPA highway mileage. I like the normally aspirated engines and the turbos should be at least 1.8 if not 2.0 liters.
Last edited by Vic Romano; 08-03-2018 at 02:33 PM..
Love my tuned 335D which is a beast with over 500HP and 550lbft torque!
Extremely reliable and super fun to drive, over 150k and no major issues.
No street sedans can compete with it on torque alone.
Intrigued seeing HP that high. Got anything on YouTube?
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