How to get a copy of a lost US car title? (vehicle, windshield)

[Fabien]

Hello,

I am living in France, and I have bought a 1988 Chevrolet Corvette without any car title.

How should I do to get a copy of the first owner US car title?

The car was imported (from the US) in France in 1988 and has never been registered yet at the French Car Title Bureau, so I do not have the right to drive this car.

To get this car registered in France, I need to show the US car title.

The only things that I have from the first owner (who died last year...) is :
- an "Approved Identification Card", issued in 1988, with a picture of the first owner, his physical description and an address on Talbot ST, Kew Gardens, New York
- the 1993 New York Vehicle Registration (maybe a renewal?) with the right VIN
- the bill of the car imported by a Swiss company which is not running anymore

Thank you for your advise.

[Quietude]

There is no such thing as a "US car title" - vehicles are registered and titled with each state, not at any national or federal level. (Just making sure - your post is ambiguous.)

The car was last titled in New York State, so that's where you have to go to find and get a copy of the title. Since you have the VIN and last owner identification, it should be possible. Maybe not easy, but possible.

https://dmv.ny.gov/

Good luck. I've dealt with enough custom/collector vehicles and international sales to know that it's a minefield of rules and demands, and sometimes you simply can't register certain vehicles from certain sale countries in others.

[Fabien]

@Quietude: you are right, thank you for this precision about the car title issued by New York State.
So its seems possible but maybe not easy.

I would like to know if New York State would send a copy of a car title to someone which is not the person who registered the car, furthermore living in France.

Has anyone ever heard of such a case?

[sunsprit]

I foresee this to be a very difficult, if not impossible, situation.

If the State of New York can even come up with a certified copy of the vehicle title to the first owner through a trace from a "lost title" in their database via the 1993 NY Registration, then you still have to show a title trail from that owner (or their estate) to the Swiss importer and then through the various owners (if any others) to you. The title trail in 1988 would have been from the manufacturer's MSO to that first owner in 1988. Unless the car was sold and title transferred in 1993, the title you're seeking is most likely a 1988 issued title. This is before most states were computerized for their car title programs and it may be very unlikely that there's a database with that car title in NY to be found.

Fabien, you ask: "I would like to know if New York State would send a copy of a car title to someone which is not the person who registered the car, furthermore living in France." I doubt it. Absent any paper trail showing that you're the owner in due course; ie, bills of sale for a complete trail leading to you, the State of NY has no justification to send you a copy of a title issued to somebody else. All of their title application paperwork is based upon the new owner applying for the title, along with proof that all of the applicable sales taxes and fees have been paid. It doesn't sound like you've got much to go on to establish that a proper title trail has been maintained for this car, nor can you show that whoever you bought the car from had a legal title to it to have the right to sell it to you.

Outside of the problems of showing an ownership title trail, you present an interesting conflict in the trail of the car; ie, you have a 1993 NY registration but the car "was imported (from the US)" to France in 1988.

So what was the ownership during that time from 1988 to 1993 while the car was in France and not NY?

Absent everybody being around to sign off each and every title/ownership transfer … and complicated by the Swiss company no longer in business … until the car came into your possession, you're stuck with a non proof of ownership vehicle. At this point, you can't even prove that the car wasn't stolen at some point in it's life.

Does France have a "bonded" title process where you can post a bond equal to the appraised value of the car and publish a legal application for ownership of the car, which if unchallenged, can lead to a clear title in your name? We are able to do that process in some states here in the USA, and it's been the process where I was able to obtain title to a car when the seller wasn't available to complete the paperwork for a title.

[StealthRabbit]

You need to get very 'creative', as USA states increasingly destroy historical records after 10 yrs.

Each state has ways to do this, but most are very painful and will require a physical inspection of vehicle (in that state) to validate VIN.

I would imagine this is not a rare situation and someone in Euro Zone has a solution.

For my lost titles... (many)

1. I have a state that does a Mechanics Lien (Take possession of car for storage charges at a towing company)
2. Then I 'redeem' the car by paying the storage fees, (fixed cost < $100) The towing company does not physically get my vehicle, but I do need to have a physical addy in that state where the vehicle is impounded for 30 days, can be a friend addy)
3. I get a Bill of sale from towing company that allows me to apply for a title in that state $50 (not where I live)
4. If I am granted a title... (100% so far, with a few quirks but solved)
5. then I transfer that Out-of-state title to my state (or any other state) and get a new title. $50

So.. couple hundred $ and a bit of paperwork for me (USA based)

You might need to buy a $500 air ticket and put up a USA state DMV inspector for a good time in France! Racing season is coming soon, they may like to come for that!

Check USA hotrod / collector sites. IIRC, there was a state (VT, NH or Maine) that offered a 'bill-of-sale' on state document that could be recognized in another state to get a title.

I will assure you that NY state and CA are 2 states I would not even consider asking for a solution.

[d4g4m]

Since the car is not registered and there is no title, before you purchased the car, you should have gone to a local police office and ask them to run the VIN to first find out if the car has been reported stolen in Europe or the U.S.

[sunsprit]

Beware of any scheme that attempts to establish a title trail via a ‘Mechanic’s Lien”.

A business filing for such a lien has got to show that they, too, had a legal right to possess the vehicle and was authorized to assess charges against it which may be satisfied by selling the vehicle to satisfy the unpaid charges.

So a shop that has possession must show a signed work order by an entity that had legal possession and a right to encumber the car charges, or a legal jurisdiction that ordered the car to be towed and impounded. That could be from a situation where the vehicle was found abandoned on public property and a law enforcement agency ordered the vehicle to be towed away and impounded.

A key feature of any such mechanic’s lien sale is that the vehicle must be advertised in a medium of public legal record offering it for sale AND it must be sold at a time and place of public auction to the highest bidder. Part of the sales process requires legitimate and timely efforts to notify the last known owner of record via traceable methods such as certified mail and document that the efforts in time were unsuccessful. The mechanic’s lien holder cannot do a private arranged sale at a low price to their favored party.

I, too, have followed this process to a legal title in several states (including California) and it takes months of going through each step of the process and documenting them to the nth degree for the authorities. The respective authorities may still want back fees and sales taxes to be paid for the transaction, and NY is a sales tax state.

Absent a legally established mechanic’s lien and physical possession of the vehicle to present it for an arm’s length legal auction to the highest bidder, every step to circumvent the process as described by a poster above is a FRAUD.

This may slip by in some states and with some unethical shops/tow companies willing to sign and file false legal documents to be at risk of possible fines and penalties on a vehicle of minimal value, like a 30+ year old VW rabbit. Even the state authorities might look upon such a transaction as one of minimal concern, with better things to occupy their time. But bring in a car of a higher valuation and the process to a title might well receive much more scrutiny by the authorities. Everybody recognizes a Corvette as likely being a car of some higher worth and that’s where the questions will start.

Even more absurd here is suggesting that a state DMV authorized inspector would sign off a VIN inspection out of the USA and then a USA based shop which never had a legal reason to obtain possession and never had it in their possession to incurr towing/impound/storage fees would cooperate with the scheme. There’s serious FRAUD at every step of the way for all parties involved ... not just the people you paid off, but on your part to have paid them to LIE on your behalf. A word of advice: don’t go there.

[cebuan]

There must be ways to do this, and people with enough experience to know how. What you need to do is find one, possibly looking someplace like Hemmings Motor News for people who buy and restore old cars. For example, 50 year old cars are found in disused barns, obviously with no papers.

Find someone who knows how to get papers, and agree to then "buy" the car from him at a negotiated price.

[Rabrrita]

The issue you may have is NYS wont issue a replacement title without the seller's notarized statement or an abandon vehicle affidavit (may go by another name). But if the vehicle was transferred out of the US in 1988 but also has an expired 1993 NYS registration, they may want an inspection of the VIN to ensure it is the same vehicle. The chances of title washing or other illegal activity is way high under this scenario. So I can see NY putting up a while lot of roadblocks to getting a title just by asking.

Now, what has happen been going on with this vehicle since being exported from the US back in 1988? Is there no other legal registration since 1993 anywhere?

[kokonutty]

Originally Posted by Fabien

Hello,

I am living in France, and I have bought a 1988 Chevrolet Corvette without any car title.

How should I do to get a copy of the first owner US car title?

The car was imported (from the US) in France in 1988 and has never been registered yet at the French Car Title Bureau, so I do not have the right to drive this car.

To get this car registered in France, I need to show the US car title.

The only things that I have from the first owner (who died last year...) is :
- an "Approved Identification Card", issued in 1988, with a picture of the first owner, his physical description and an address on Talbot ST, Kew Gardens, New York
- the 1993 New York Vehicle Registration (maybe a renewal?) with the right VIN
- the bill of the car imported by a Swiss company which is not running anymore

Thank you for your advise.

There is no reason for a person in New York to have paid for a registration for a car that had already been in France for five years. The story you are telling does not ring true; where have you gotten the information you have posted here? Are there any license plates on or with the car? In the US license plates change periodically and always when ownership of the vehicle changes. Are there any registration stickers on the car which would be in the lower left corner of the windshield as you sit in the car? No ownership documents in New York State contain a picture or description of the owner. Has the car been in storage since its arrival in France or has someone had it on the road during that time?