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Old 01-19-2020, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,798 posts, read 2,267,062 times
Reputation: 6637

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
They have nothing to do with getting the best performance from an engine. That would be the driver, a bad driver with a stick shift is worse at getting performance from an engine than an automatic. Better yet a DCT is ubiquitously better than a human.

For best actual performance the algorithm is pretty easy, hit the throttle and change up just before you hit the rev limiter, because even though you're past peak torque, you're still delivering more rear wheel torque in a lower gear above peak torque than a higher gear at peak torque.

That said no one on a road (or in a daily driver) drives like this, so you're already not getting every last bit of power from that engine regardless of engine capacity.

What he meant was, a manual with a solid clutch delivers more of the engine;s power to the rear wheels at all times, while a typical torque converter automatic does not. There is more HP loss through the automatic than the manual, so that they tend to have worse performance both accelerating at any throttle position or up hills.


That's why I don't like small engine cars with automatics, and why, when my wife wanted a smaller fun car with an automatic to replace her manual transmission MINI (after having manuals for years ) I chose one with more HP to start with (the 330ci ZHP) so that it didn't have to work as hard to overcome the parasitic loss of the automatic transmission.
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:37 PM
 
30,215 posts, read 20,950,033 times
Reputation: 11831
Never drove one in my life and no way i am rowing thru gears in my traffic with lights every 200 ft. The built A6 auto trans on my modded C6 Vette is faster than MN6 any day. I would have no clue how to drive a stick rick.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:34 PM
 
Location: moved
13,580 posts, read 9,606,077 times
Reputation: 23333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
For best actual performance the algorithm is pretty easy, hit the throttle and change up just before you hit the rev limiter, because even though you're past peak torque, you're still delivering more rear wheel torque in a lower gear above peak torque than a higher gear at peak torque.
There is the machine's algorithm, and the human algorithm. Machines are optimized for comfort, reliability, efficiency. Rarely are they optimized for maximum-effort acceleration. Decades ago, the human-algorithm was to hold the brake, mash the gas, and then - once ready to launch - to release the brake. This no longer works on modern automatics. The machine-algorithm is in the way.

Even a well-trained and athletic human will shift more slowly, and less precisely, than the machine. But humans have better algorithms. The human driver can decide when to shift, and when to stay in present gear. With a mechanical throttle cable, the human driver is free to pursue the desired algorithm. But with a machine in the way, the machine's algorithm dominates. Much of that 300 hp, or whatever the modern engine theoretically delivers, is held in abeyance, until the machine's algorithm deems to be proper to deploy it. A shame, isn't it?
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:38 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,285 posts, read 54,079,395 times
Reputation: 40586
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
Driving a manual easy and fun, i can drive any type of manual out there sure Miss the 3 on the tree. Today’s youth have no idea what they are missing. In a pickup you don’t use first gear unless you are hauling a heavy load or towing a trailer, first gear in a pickup or a larger stake truck is called a creeper gear.

Even more fun is driving an 18 speed Mack where you hook your arm through the steering wheel and shift two transmissions at the same time.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:15 AM
 
7,473 posts, read 3,985,096 times
Reputation: 6462
try this one...……….

https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...2070039&sim=11
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
5,411 posts, read 8,095,480 times
Reputation: 11498
The most efficient of all is an automated shift manual transmission, now only available on trucks. A computer analyzes everything and shifts the gears via a mechanism at the optimum times for maximum performance and fuel efficiency. https://demanddetroit.com/dt12transmission/
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:27 AM
 
1,065 posts, read 768,905 times
Reputation: 903
Default Here a 4 speed box coupled with a 6 speed transmission 24 gears old school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Even more fun is driving an 18 speed Mack where you hook your arm through the steering wheel and shift two transmissions at the same time.
Here a guy shifting 4 speed auxiliary box coupled with a 6 speed transmission 24 gears old school. I just put the video up on my 13 speed site this morning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mTL2BL6ji0
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Born + raised SF Bay; Tyler, TX now WNY
8,352 posts, read 4,603,015 times
Reputation: 8238
I wish my company had the good stuff. They put us in 10-speeds and I always wished for more tweener gears. Now they have us in these autobox trucks. The only thing I like better about the autobox is that it really makes descents a lot easier.
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:45 AM
 
11,230 posts, read 9,194,591 times
Reputation: 32247
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKJ1988 View Post
Never drove one in my life and no way i am rowing thru gears in my traffic with lights every 200 ft. The built A6 auto trans on my modded C6 Vette is faster than MN6 any day. I would have no clue how to drive a stick rick.
Ah, we hear from opinionated ignorance!
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:55 AM
 
1,065 posts, read 768,905 times
Reputation: 903
Default I like the longevity factor of the old stuff. It held together longer and gave you a lot more options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
I wish my company had the good stuff. They put us in 10-speeds and I always wished for more tweener gears. Now they have us in these autobox trucks. The only thing I like better about the autobox is that it really makes descents a lot easier.

I like the longevity factor of the old stuff. It held together longer and gave you a lot more options. Never drove an automatic but I could see it being handy if you did nothing but city. The decent thing is also a real advantage. It's a big industry both transmissions have their advantages and disadvantages.
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