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Huh. That's the second car-related sweeping slap at the 70s in a few hours. What is this, beat up disco day?
And just what is it that you think has changed between 1975 and today, in all this respect?
The internet...now there's no mystery as far as what invoice, resale or any other data is. People used to have to trust dealerships for trade in value, interest rates and such...not anymore! Did you really need that explained to you? Where you unaware or unable to make that small leap?
The internet...now there's no mystery as far as what invoice, resale or any other data is. People used to have to trust dealerships for trade in value, interest rates and such...not anymore! Did you really need that explained to you? Where you unaware or unable to make that small leap?
No, but a little context helps.
Yes, we poor serfs only had the Kelley Blue Book back in the day. It's a wonder we could figure out what a car was.
There were also regularly published annual magazines that had complete vehicle cost and invoice information.
We weren't exactly living in caves and using candles before the internet.
No, but a little context helps.
Yes, we poor serfs only had the Kelley Blue Book back in the day. It's a wonder we could figure out what a car was.
There were also regularly published annual magazines that had complete vehicle cost and invoice information.
We weren't exactly living in caves and using candles before the internet.
Quietude, do you recommend a national broker (if there is one), or are they all local? I'm within a year from my next new car, and am already researching. My last new one was in 2013 from a manufacturer my employer was affiliated with, and I got the "EP" (employee price), I think it was 5% under invoice, with no added fees, plus all rebates still applied - I think it was like 20 or 25% under MSRP plus tax, I was pretty happy with that (the Expy I bought before that was MSRP -29%, but that was just before the dam broke in 2006). A super-savvy buyer might have been able to do better haggling, but I was satisfied, and that's all that counts. Now, even that did not stop funny business - as you have alluded previously, during closing, the Finance Guy claimed the Salesman "miscalculated" the price of the vehicle by deducting my deposit twice and wanted an extra $500. I told them that they could either honor the deal he made or they could refund my deposit and we'd start over, and then sat back and folded my arms - as they say, "the next guy who speaks loses". They honored it, and I drove home with a new car, and sold my old vehicle to a friend who needed a truck to tow with. I never did determine whether the sales guy made a mistake or not, the price I paid was $250 less than I expected when I walked in, so it may have happened - but I wasn't willing to take that chance. That manufacturer (FCA) is not currently making a vehicle that's on my short list for next year, we'll see going forward.
I'm thinking about commissioning Eaton to find a car for me, but don't know if he's for hire (no jab intended, I'm serious). If his tales are accurate, he's getting some hellacious deals. Eaton, are you using the Internet to search online dealership ads? The problem with that is, you can travel a long distance only to be bait and switched, if there's one thing that dealership personnel are allergic to, is telling the truth over the phone.
Yes, we poor serfs only had the Kelley Blue Book back in the day. It's a wonder we could figure out what a car was.
There were also regularly published annual magazines that had complete vehicle cost and invoice information.
We weren't exactly living in caves and using candles before the internet.
Available perhaps, but many back then were unaware of those tools just as today many seem to be unaware of a thing called Google. Instead they start threads asking/whining about things they could have solved for themselves in seconds.
Yes car salesman are very crafty in trying to extract every dollar that they can. This is why I started to do extensive research starting with my first purchase years ago. I have became an expert negotiator over the years at dealing with car salesman. So I haven't had to deal with the "4 square" method in years. Most salesman realize within minutes of talking to me that its not going to work with me. A lot of my friends ask me to go with them to negotiate their car price. One memorable time was when I finalized a total all in price of a new car for my friend the salesman dropped his serious face, smiled, shook my hand and stated "man next I go car shopping I'm taking you with me."
Last year I bought a new car for my sister. This particular salesman while polite was one of the most stubborn salesman I have ever dealt with. I walked into the dealership with every piece of information needed to negotiate a fair deal for me and the dealer. I had the cost, incentives, rebates etc. itemized so I knew exactly what the dealership paid for the vehicle. Then I gave the salesman an offer with a profit margin that I knew was satisfactory to the dealership. However, no matter how much logic, common sense or tact I used; the guy wouldn't come down to my number. So I decided to try a "blunt no holds bar approach" and said to the guy:
"Look you already know I don't need this car anytime soon. And you know that I'm willing to go 200 miles out of my way if that's what it takes to get a fair deal. I'm giving you a very fair price that will give you a little profit and keep me happy. What's the point of me walking out now when you know eventually someone will agree to my price because its fair? Besides you and I both know that for every one of me you sell a car to; your going to be able to rip off 10 suckers who will make you a ton of money. So just sell me the car at the price I'm offering."
When I said the last line he had a shocked look on his face for a moment, then smiled and simply said "Yeah your right, let me just go get a final approval from my manager." From that moment on they gave me zero hassle and didn't even try to push all the extra junk they try to sell people.
Last edited by griffon652; 04-29-2019 at 04:42 AM..
I have bought 30+ cars over the years and I love the challenge of dealing with the sales people. The last three have been from the same dealership, because I found them to be honest and fair, and not play the games that others do. My last purchase was a 2017 F150, with a stick price of $46,800, and I was trading in a 2007 Ranger. I did not tell them how much of a payment I wanted, how much I wanted to pay for the truck, or how much I wanted for my trade. I simply told them the features I wanted in the new truck, and color choices. The sales person looked up the Blue Book on the Ranger. then while I test drove (2) they evaluated my Ranger, and came back offering me $800 more than I expected. When I decided on the truck I wanted I saw the invoice and sticker and offered $36,000, plus $250 to add the OEM trailer brake controller. He went to get approval from the sales manager and came back with the OK, no long negotiation involved. Then I told them I had pre-approval from my credit union, but then he talked to their finance guy and offered me a loan through another bank for .5% lower interest rate.
Yup. I've bought 2 from the dealer I go through now. My automatic price is 6% under invoice through a group buy I'm part of. I send the sales manager an email of what I want, I get a build sheet and a price back. My 2016 Grand Cherokee was a factory order since they didn't have anything with the packages I wanted, so did everything over email, faxed back my signature on the order and went in 4 weeks later to pick it up and sign the paperwork. Did the trade over email too, it was beautiful. They've always beaten whatever rate I get from my bank too, which makes life a bit easier.
People who negotiate on payments drive me nuts...it's such a terrible way to buy a car and you're just begging to get hosed.
You just need to be smart, prepared and have YOUR finances in a position where they are at your mercy and not you at theirs...that means being fully able to afford what you go in there for. The riskier you are as a buyer the more they're going to pad things in their favor to offset losses from people like you that wind up not fulfilling their end of the deal down the road.
You're about half correct with this logic. IF you are a sub-prime borrower, you get legitimately hit for high interest rates, since the bank takes a risk, and demands a greater reward. As for not "keeping your end of the bargain", nobody really cares on the other side of the desk, in the finance manager's office, or anywhere else, really. The dealer meets the banks requirements, does the deal, and washes their hands of you. They really couldn't care if you make a payment, or not. The bank often bundles and securitizes the note, and dumps them on the market for a profit. When it comes to actually holding the note, it's buy here, pay here territory, that whole scam is a license to print money, and the savvy BHPH operators MAKE money when you default.
Obviously, buying more than you can handle, or buying with a crap credit score, are both horrible to you in the long term. That said, the dealer is not "pre-screwing" you, since they are protecting themselves from your future poor decision making. They are screwing you, in the moment, since you are there and willing.
You're about half correct with this logic. IF you are a sub-prime borrower, you get legitimately hit for high interest rates, since the bank takes a risk, and demands a greater reward. As for not "keeping your end of the bargain", nobody really cares on the other side of the desk, in the finance manager's office, or anywhere else, really. The dealer meets the banks requirements, does the deal, and washes their hands of you. They really couldn't care if you make a payment, or not. The bank often bundles and securitizes the note, and dumps them on the market for a profit. When it comes to actually holding the note, it's buy here, pay here territory, that whole scam is a license to print money, and the savvy BHPH operators MAKE money when you default.
Obviously, buying more than you can handle, or buying with a crap credit score, are both horrible to you in the long term. That said, the dealer is not "pre-screwing" you, since they are protecting themselves from your future poor decision making. They are screwing you, in the moment, since you are there and willing.
Perhaps you didn't comprehend my post completely or maybe you just want to pick at straws...
Being a risky borrower means higher rates! It matters not if it's the dealer itself or the bank...whoever is doing the actual financing is going to pad it a lot more to cover their risk!
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(no jab intended, I'm serious). If his tales are accurate, he's getting some hellacious deals. Eaton, are you using the Internet to search online dealership ads? The problem with that is, you can travel a long distance only to be bait and switched, if there's one thing that dealership personnel are allergic to, is telling the truth over the phone.
