Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'd have to disagree. In some situations, the vehicle itself is cheap, and the only objective is to keep it limping along. For example, suppose that worn brake-pads are ignored, to the point where the friction-material has been completely abraded away, and there's metal-on-metal contact. Should the rotor get replaced, or just the pad? It depends. On a $500 car that's going to get junked anyway, it makes no sense to replace the rotor. Even if the pad touching the now-damaged rotor surface has to get renewed every 10,000 miles, well, just keep replacing that one pad. There are four to pack, and generally they're symmetric.
In other words, there are times when shoddy workmanship is the optimal middle-ground, between ignoring the problem entirely, and according it due-diligence for a comprehensive solution.
That’s still dumb. You’re only creating more work for yourself. If you’re going to keep the car for another 10k +, it would be better to put new pads and rotors and just be done with it. Most rotors aren’t more than a set of pads a piece, and you want have to tear it apart every 10k to replace that one pad. Maybe it’s time to just junk the car if a set of pads and rotors isn’t “worth it”.
Still no reason for shoddy work IMO. If you don’t have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it again?
A user mentioned using JB weld on a leaking oil pan and that’s a valid fix IMO because it addressed the problem. Your brake analogy still leaves a problem that’ll come back around, making you work even more. That’s how I differentiate between “cheap” and outright “shoddy”.
That’s still dumb. You’re only creating more work for yourself. If you’re going to keep the car for another 10k +, it would be better to put new pads and rotors and just be done with it. Most rotors aren’t more than a set of pads a piece, and you want have to tear it apart every 10k to replace that one pad. Maybe it’s time to just junk the car if a set of pads and rotors isn’t “worth it”.
Still no reason for shoddy work IMO. If you don’t have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it again?
A user mentioned using JB weld on a leaking oil pan and that’s a valid fix IMO because it addressed the problem. Your brake analogy still leaves a problem that’ll come back around, making you work even more. That’s how I differentiate between “cheap” and outright “shoddy”.
This is why buying used cars can be a horrible experience for many, you just dont know what bootleg fix was performed. Patch jobs, stop leaks, and engine pressure washes can make a car look good for a couple of weeks or months.
Ive seen a video saying AT-205 reseal can stop a engine leak, im guessing because it swells gaskets, but some of the reviews show on some older cars it swelled them and made them all brittle and took out all the gaskets a short time later, so the 1 leak they tried to fix ended up being a engine rebuild almost.
I botched a power steering pump replacement and stripped the bolt to the line, I then got a 25 cent washer and a drill and put it in the line and it stopped the leak vs getting a new PS high pressure line. Pump failed, since was Autozone reman. garbage and the line still had to be replaced. If I sold the car, the person behind me would have had a nice $1300 repair bill waiting for them if they werent mechanically inclined over a bootleg repair I did.
...If you don’t have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it again?
That's a misconception. Doing a shoddy job might take 10 minutes. "Doing it right" might take 2 hours. I can do a half-dozen shoddy jobs in half of the time required for one "proper job".
This happens ubiquitously, whether in car-repair or running a scientific experiment or baking a cake. Done by a person who knows what they're doing, slapdash and half-hearted work is often just more efficient over the long-run, than sedulous attention to quality. All gadgets eventually fail. Even the sturdiest house eventually rots and crumbles. The human body wears out, and dies.
One of the stupidest adages in the English language, is "Anything worth doing, is worth doing well". Nothing could be further from the truth! There's a spectrum of worth. Some things are just barely worth doing, but have to be done regardless. Other things demand more dedication. Others, still more. The worth is situational, and an official guide - such as a factory service manual - is written to err on caution's side.
Maybe I won't change the crankshaft rear main seal when I do a clutch job. Why not? Because I might have that engine in and out of the car three times before summer's over. I might even find that I don't particularly like this clutch, and will try another. Maybe I'll get a hankering to get the flywheel shaved, to reduce its mass by a few pounds. Maybe I won't change the water pump while I'm doing the timing-belt. Why not? Because maybe I'll experiment with camshaft phasing, and will have that timing-belt out several times anyway. And if I need access to the water pump later, so what - it's a quick job anyway.
Maybe I know that the outer lower A-arm bushings wear out faster than the inner ones. So, I'll only press-out and change the outer ones. A shoddy job? Yes, but I'll only replace what's absolutely necessary. And maybe so doing, avoids disturbing eccentric-bolts that affect the rear toe. So by NOT replacing all of the bushings, I save the trouble of doing a realignment.
In some, there are plenty of times where laziness pays.
That's a misconception. Doing a shoddy job might take 10 minutes. "Doing it right" might take 2 hours. I can do a half-dozen shoddy jobs in half of the time required for one "proper job".
This happens ubiquitously, whether in car-repair or running a scientific experiment or baking a cake. Done by a person who knows what they're doing, slapdash and half-hearted work is often just more efficient over the long-run, than sedulous attention to quality. All gadgets eventually fail. Even the sturdiest house eventually rots and crumbles. The human body wears out, and dies.
One of the stupidest adages in the English language, is "Anything worth doing, is worth doing well". Nothing could be further from the truth! There's a spectrum of worth. Some things are just barely worth doing, but have to be done regardless. Other things demand more dedication. Others, still more. The worth is situational, and an official guide - such as a factory service manual - is written to err on caution's side.
Maybe I won't change the crankshaft rear main seal when I do a clutch job. Why not? Because I might have that engine in and out of the car three times before summer's over. I might even find that I don't particularly like this clutch, and will try another. Maybe I'll get a hankering to get the flywheel shaved, to reduce its mass by a few pounds. Maybe I won't change the water pump while I'm doing the timing-belt. Why not? Because maybe I'll experiment with camshaft phasing, and will have that timing-belt out several times anyway. And if I need access to the water pump later, so what - it's a quick job anyway.
Maybe I know that the outer lower A-arm bushings wear out faster than the inner ones. So, I'll only press-out and change the outer ones. A shoddy job? Yes, but I'll only replace what's absolutely necessary. And maybe so doing, avoids disturbing eccentric-bolts that affect the rear toe. So by NOT replacing all of the bushings, I save the trouble of doing a realignment.
In some, there are plenty of times where laziness pays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN
This is why buying used cars can be a horrible experience for many, you just dont know what bootleg fix was performed. Patch jobs, stop leaks, and engine pressure washes can make a car look good for a couple of weeks or months.
Ive seen a video saying AT-205 reseal can stop a engine leak, im guessing because it swells gaskets, but some of the reviews show on some older cars it swelled them and made them all brittle and took out all the gaskets a short time later, so the 1 leak they tried to fix ended up being a engine rebuild almost.
I botched a power steering pump replacement and stripped the bolt to the line, I then got a 25 cent washer and a drill and put it in the line and it stopped the leak vs getting a new PS high pressure line. Pump failed, since was Autozone reman. garbage and the line still had to be replaced. If I sold the car, the person behind me would have had a nice $1300 repair bill waiting for them if they werent mechanically inclined over a bootleg repair I did.
Bootleg or bare bones repairs are really on you. Don’t assume just because you did a crap job repair that everyone will do a crap job repair. To me the way someone does a job is on that person. If you don’t give a **** about the quality of the work you put out that’s probably your general attitude towards a lot of things
It really depends on if you’re paying someone or you’re diy. And your financial situation. The way I usually experience it is the less money you have the less likely you are to take care of a vehicle. Diy is a crapshoot. I’ve seen crap job repairs and I’ve seen meticulous work. If a car has issues you can usually tell. And there is always having a car checked by a mechanic
...If you don’t give a **** about the quality of the work you put out that’s probably your general attitude towards a lot of things
Absolutely!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you
It really depends on if you’re paying someone or you’re diy. ...
If someone's paying me to do a job, or even if I'm doing a job for a friend for free, I'd be more meticulous than, if I were doing it for myself. A customer can't be expected to know what's what, and even if he does, he can't be expected to abide shortcuts that I foisted upon him.
If someone's paying me to do a job, or even if I'm doing a job for a friend for free, I'd be more meticulous than, if I were doing it for myself. A customer can't be expected to know what's what, and even if he does, he can't be expected to abide shortcuts that I foisted upon him.
See......I never understood that. Why would you do a great job for someone paid or even free, but crap out on your own jobs. Just makes no sense to me.
See......I never understood that. Why would you do a great job for someone paid or even free, but crap out on your own jobs. Just makes no sense to me.
Why?
1. If I screw up a repair done for somebody else, I place them in jeopardy. I potentially ruin a friendship. If I screw up on my own repair, I only fail myself.
2. Even if a customer doesn't know what they want, my orders are clear: fulfill their stated desires. But what if I myself don't know what I want? And generally, I don't! If my objectives aren't clear, I might as well go about the task half-heartedly, tentatively and even flippantly.
3. Often there's a liberating feeling in owning and using things in dilapidated condition, which are just on the edge of failure. To foist that upon somebody else, especially an unsuspecting somebody-else, is dishonorable. To practice that for one's own self, is a whimsical game with nature, a kind of philosophical dance.
4. There's a particular joy in cutting corners, in purportedly cheated the second law of thermodynamics. Referring to point #1, that's a pernicious way to act when other people are involved. But for oneself, there's little at stake.
1. shops want "cheap", too. they shop-around for the CHEAPEST price.
2. cheap for a cheap car is the BEST option. our 2000 with 300,000 gets cheap.
3. your Cheap might be my Expensive. different incomes mean different outcomes.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
