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The way I see it, EVs are a "short sighted" solution to an energy/pollution problem. I say "short sighted", because those who are the most vocal about the benefits of EVs, are turning a blind eye to their current state of the art.
Yes, an EV doesn't have an exhaust pipe that DIRECTLY emits air pollutants, created by a fossil-fueled, ICE. And the EV doesn't directly depend on oil, for it's operation. HOWEVER, in order to charge that EV, you need to generate electrical power, and in many cases, the power plants are fueled by coal burning power plants. Therefore, it's "six of one, half a dozen of another", with respect to air pollution...BUT, the "tree huggers" won't admit to this.
I'm not a tree hugger, I'm a car guy that happens to love the instant torque and acceleration of EVs. And what you fail to see is that, even coal plants are getting cleaner every year (and many are switching to natural gas, which is even cleaner) so that the tailpipe emissions, while they are being redirected to power plants, are STILL an order of magnitude cleaner than they would be otherwise. And only getting cleaner. And yes, moving the source of pollution out of urban and developed areas is a good thing, even if it isn't perfect, simply due to the fact that it's all getting cleaner by doing so. It's not 100%, but it's at least 70-80% better than a few million individual barely (if at all) regulated point sources that are getting dirtier every year they are used (individual cars).
You're one of those that thinks that if we don't/can't fix it 100% then it's not worth even bothering to make incremental or even large orders of change, right?
Most people are stupid. So yeah, I'll probably be slapping my forehead trying to talk to stupid people.
Why you refuse to listen to someone with experience is beyond me. You must have been a joy in school.
I am listening to you and I do understand what you are saying, I'm just saying that it doesn't matter and people are not going to adopt it with the enthusiasm that you have and there's nothing you can do about it. Why that concept seems so hard for you to grasp is a mystery.
I don't think pointing out how funny it is that you're choosing a collector's edition performance car to rack up the same 0-60 against a mass production full-size sedan is defensive. I think that's just funny in general!
I get that you're not looking for an electric car, but you're also talking with a lot of conviction about something you have no experience with, possibly not even a test drive, which is what is makes that conviction so odd. Most people who have driven electric vehicles have probably also driven ICE vehicles to make a more complete comparison.
Yea, of course, you can fix anything with power. You make it sound like there aren't inherent trade-offs when it comes to a vehicle purchase. You don't just get asked for the same exact car and with everything else being the same, would you like the power knob turned up to a 7 or an 11? That's what makes your arguments so weird like you need to find something no matter how ridiculous it is to pick at.
As far as heaviness of Teslas, yea, they're about the same weight range as cars in their class. A Model 3's curb weight runs from 3,552 to 4,072 lbs depending on which one you buy. A C-Class runs from 3,472 to 3,682 lbs. A Model S curb weight goes from 4,769 to 4,941 lbs compared to a S-Class that goesfrom 4,553 to 5,296 lbs. Them luxury sedans get heavy, so I guess the whole category just aren't your thing.
I’m proving to you EV’s have no secret sauce to 0-60 times. They require a lot of power and traction just like anything else. As a technology they actually make poor performance cars. No need to compare them to BMWs and Audi’s because they aren’t my cup of tea either. I don’t need to experience racing with an EV to know what I would like. I told you my requirements. Unless you have also driven Porsche’s, Miatas, Demon’s, motorcycles, or whatever else one could possibly race in every configuration in every type of race, you too don’t have the experience to know what you’re talking about. Suddenly sport sedan owners become motorsports enthusiast because they bought a Tesla because the dealer told showed them some drag racing Youtube videos. You pushed a Ludacris mode button and went from novice to professional race car driver. That must feel as amazing as paying someone else to play golf for you. This is why people hate you people.
I personally don’t get the truck fad. Everybody I know seems to be switching to trucks. I see them everywhere driven by everybody from rednecks to stock brokers. They see something in them I don’t see. However, I’ve never heard them ask “what will it take to get everybody else to drive a truck?”.
EV owners are like Apple fanboys. Is it not enough to enjoy the vehicle you bought for whatever reason without feeling like you need to “convert” everybody else? If you’re trying to get people to make the switch, you’re doing far more harm than good.
Most people are stupid. So yeah, I'll probably be slapping my forehead trying to talk to stupid people.
Why you refuse to listen to someone with experience is beyond me. You must have been a joy in school.
“Most people drive things like Nissan Maxima’s and Corollas. I tell them to buy fun vehicles like a Jeep or a Motorcycle till I’m blue in the face and they just don’t listen.” See how retarded that sounds?
I’m proving to you EV’s have no secret sauce to 0-60 times. They require a lot of power and traction just like anything else. As a technology they actually make poor performance cars. No need to compare them to BMWs and Audi’s because they aren’t my cup of tea either. I don’t need to experience racing with an EV to know what I would like. I told you my requirements. Unless you have also driven Porsche’s, Miatas, Demon’s, motorcycles, or whatever else one could possibly race in every configuration in every type of race, you too don’t have the experience to know what you’re talking about. Suddenly sport sedan owners become motorsports enthusiast because they bought a Tesla because the dealer told showed them some drag racing Youtube videos. You pushed a Ludacris mode button and went from novice to professional race car driver. That must feel as amazing as paying someone else to play golf for you. This is why people hate you people.
I personally don’t get the truck fad. Everybody I know seems to be switching to trucks. I see them everywhere driven by everybody from rednecks to stock brokers. They see something in them I don’t see. However, I’ve never heard them ask “what will it take to get everybody else to drive a truck?”.
EV owners are like Apple fanboys. Is it not enough to enjoy the vehicle you bought for whatever reason without feeling like you need to “convert” everybody else? If you’re trying to get people to make the switch, you’re doing far more harm than good.
Nice, so your view is not actually based on having tried the performance of an electric car, but that people hate "you people". Very good. Sounds pretty accurate so far.
I'm not sure what secret sauce you're talking about. This is just how electric motors work. The funny part was bringing up a collector's edition performance car meant for the drag strip to a mass production full-sized sedan.
Also, the topic was essentially what it would take to make electric vehicles have a larger market share than ICE vehicles. There's not much of a fanboy element that needs to be there. It's about projecting where the market is going. You keep on bringing up a lack of necessity for long range EVs and how fast chargers aren't necessary, but then thee are people who are actually citing specific actual situations where EVs are less reasonable. Longer range EVs and faster, more ubiquitous chargers pretty much fit into fixing those situations and making EVs a viable contender for such. It's about use cases, bro!
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-26-2019 at 04:35 PM..
I am listening to you and I do understand what you are saying, I'm just saying that it doesn't matter and people are not going to adopt it with the enthusiasm that you have and there's nothing you can do about it. Why that concept seems so hard for you to grasp is a mystery.
Right, it's not about enthusiasm, but whether or not EVs do or eventually will fit the use cases. Like, is the EV the better value proposition for your current situation dependent on how you use it, where you live, what your budget is, etc. For a lot more people than may be aware of it, and this certainly isn't anyone's "fault" so much as how quickly the technology has moved though there certainly is a lot of misinformation about them, the EV is probably a pretty good value proposition. And given the current trends in the underlying technology and how deployment has gone so far, it's going to be a good fit, not just a shoehorning, for more and more people in the coming years not so much because they love EVs, but because they will hold certain advantages over ICE vehicles.
My guess is about 2022 for double digit market share of new cars in the US, and 2028 for majority market share of new cars in the US. This is more aggressive than most projections, but I think there's a network effect that will happen with fast charging stations and additionally the massive investment in EVs due to EU and Chinese environmental regulations will cause a quick shift among automakers where they will be moved to make better EVs faster and then might want to recoup more of that massive investment in changing over by trying to push for sales in the US.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-26-2019 at 05:19 PM..
Nice, so your view is not actually based on having tried the performance of an electric car, but that people hate "you people". Very good. Sounds pretty accurate so far.
I'm not sure what secret sauce you're talking about. This is just how electric motors work. The funny part was bringing up a collector's edition performance car meant for the drag strip to a mass production full-sized sedan.
Also, the topic was essentially what it would take to make electric vehicles have a larger market share than ICE vehicles. There's not much of a fanboy element that needs to be there. It's about projecting where the market is going. You keep on bringing up a lack of necessity for long range EVs and how fast chargers aren't necessary, but then thee are people who are actually citing specific actual situations where EVs are less reasonable. Longer range EVs and faster, more ubiquitous chargers pretty much fit into fixing those situations and making EVs a viable contender for such. It's about use cases, bro!
Give up on the collectors edition nonsense. Formula E sucks compared to Formula 1 because it’s electric. There’s an apples to apples comparison for you. A Tesla has all of its torque available at launch (because it’s electric) and more horsepower (because you paid for it). That’s why nobody drag races Leafs and Bolts. They don’t have the horsepower.
So again, what is it you think people don’t like about their current cars that would make them even bother with the hassle of owning an EV at all? Even if you sped up recharging speeds, and added a fast charger on every corner and offered free home charger installation. They could drive a hybrid right now and save gas and not wait for fast charging. Why would fast charging suddenly make people change what they drive when they don’t need fast charging right now anyway?
My curiosity lies in the actual effect of a majority EV automobile population. As in, infrastructure, power production increases needed, brownouts, waste from such a large number of short lived batteries, etc.
Right, it's not about enthusiasm, but whether or not EVs do or eventually will fit the use cases. Like, is the EV the better value proposition for your current situation dependent on how you use it, where you live, what your budget is, etc. For a lot more people than may be aware of it, and this certainly isn't anyone's "fault" so much as how quickly the technology has moved though there certainly is a lot of misinformation about them, the EV is probably a pretty good value proposition. And given the current trends in the underlying technology and how deployment has gone so far, it's going to be a good fit, not just a shoehorning, for more and more people in the coming years not so much because they love EVs, but because they will hold certain advantages over ICE vehicles.
My guess is about 2022 for double digit market share of new cars in the US, and 2028 for majority market share of new cars in the US. This is more aggressive than most projections, but I think there's a network effect that will happen with fast charging stations and additionally the massive investment in EVs due to EU and Chinese environmental regulations will cause a quick shift among automakers where they will be moved to make better EVs faster and then might want to recoup more of that massive investment in changing over by trying to push for sales in the US.
What advantages do EV’s really have from a user standpoint?
This is what I hear as misinterpretation:
1) EVs are less maintenance—- wrong. Tesla is consistently at the bottom of reliability lists. Out of warranty work is prohibitive (all major components must be replaced as one giant component) and modern ICE’s maintenance cost are negligible anyway.
2) Driving long distance is just as convenient because you have to stop anyway—-wrong. I like to stop when I want to, not 30 minutes after I started to properly pace my charging plan.
3) you can drive anywhere in an EV thanks to interstate chargers.—-nope. I’m about to make a 5 hour drive US and state roads to go to a remote lake. I’ll need to get there and back and the cabin doesn’t have a level 2 charger. I doubt Tesla or anybody else wants to put superchargers where there’s barely any gas stations.
4) EV’s are faster—not really. Most EV’s are just as slow unless you pay extra just like an ICE car. It’s not like anybody is actually auto-crossing their commuters anyway.
Most EV “advantages” are simply advantages from an enthusiast standpoint. Nobody else cares about this stuff. You could just as easily get a lecture from a truck owner telling you all the reasons you need a truck.
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