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Old 09-26-2019, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas & San Diego
6,906 posts, read 3,290,046 times
Reputation: 8618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
No they don’t.
Where did this myth come from?
https://www.thebalance.com/governmen...rt-etc-3305788

Quote:
Here is a summary of the 2011 oil industry subsidies compiled by Taxpayers for Common Sense in its report, "Subsidy Gusher."
Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit - $31 billion.
Intangible Drilling Costs - $8.9 billion.
Oil and Gas Royalty Relief - $6.9 billion.
Percentage Depletion Allowance - $4.327 billion.
Refinery Equipment Deductions - $2.3 billion.
Geological and Geophysical Costs Tax Credit - $698 million.
Natural Gas Distribution Lines - $500 million.
Ultradeepwater and Unconventional Natural Gas and other Petroleum Resources R&D - $230 million.
Passive Loss Exemption - $105 million.
Unconventional Fossil Technology Program - $100 million.
Other subsidies - $161 million.

 
Old 09-26-2019, 07:41 PM
 
3,560 posts, read 1,619,089 times
Reputation: 6116
I still want one of those flying cars that fold up into a briefcase like they promised on tv long ago.
 
Old 09-26-2019, 07:54 PM
 
Location: moved
13,565 posts, read 9,570,895 times
Reputation: 23301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
It's a clever idea, but the execution leaves much to be desired. The old "Smart Roadster" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_Roadster) would have been a better platform. 80 hp is a little sparse, but not too awful, especially if the Roadster's weight could be maintained in electric form (around 1750 pounds).

Much of the bloat and poor performance can be traced to (1) ornery mandated safety standards, and (2) convenience/habits of unfit and voluminous consumers. A car designed for a 120-pound 19-year-old kid who grew up racing go-karts would be more sensible... in other words, something more in the spirit of the Smart Roadster.

Once again, though it's not the sort of car that I'd actually buy, I'm gratified that at least it exists.
 
Old 09-26-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: 0.83 Atmospheres
11,477 posts, read 11,434,598 times
Reputation: 11976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
No they don’t.
Where did this myth come from?
Only a myth if you don’t count the billions of industry specific subsidies we throw at them.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...-oil-subsidies
 
Old 09-26-2019, 09:58 PM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,841,384 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo View Post
Don't like the facts so change the argument from weight to range - you are so disingenuous.
I didn’t state anything about weight. Just pointing out an example of bad energy density per given weight.
 
Old 09-26-2019, 10:04 PM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,841,384 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo View Post
You just listed a bunch of business tax deductions and credits that any business would be eligible for.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...subsidies/amp/

I know you’re just reciting the pamphlet or whatever they give you as part of your welcome packet when you buy an EV, but it’s all based on BS.
 
Old 09-26-2019, 10:08 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,290 posts, read 87,066,921 times
Reputation: 55549
Every time you reduce your dependence on gas you send a punch to the groin to opec
 
Old 09-26-2019, 10:16 PM
 
9,613 posts, read 6,841,384 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Only a myth if you don’t count the billions of industry specific subsidies we throw at them.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...-oil-subsidies
Again, not one subsidy is listed. Just a bunch of business tax deductions and credits available to anybody in any kind of energy/mining industry.
 
Old 09-26-2019, 10:58 PM
 
Location: 0.83 Atmospheres
11,477 posts, read 11,434,598 times
Reputation: 11976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
Again, not one subsidy is listed. Just a bunch of business tax deductions and credits available to anybody in any kind of energy/mining industry.
That’s the point. We offer industry specific tax rebates to that sector that in effect subsidizes them. To say that oil and gas get no government support is completely disingenuous. Hell, we are sending troops to assist the Saudis so their oil production isn’t disrupted. You think that’s free? It costs a lot more than a few tax rebates on electric cars.
 
Old 09-27-2019, 12:44 AM
 
3,154 posts, read 2,028,440 times
Reputation: 9288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
Maybe the answer should have been, "It did, it just sucks". Smart pulled out of the U.S.A., didn't it? But the price point ($22K before Fed subsidy) sure is tasty. For $15K (out of pocket), this thing would pretty much pay for itself in eight or ten years of driving for me, it would be a "no brainer", my IC van would sit unused 80 or 90% of the time. If it were still available, I'd look real hard at it right now.
And if the Electric Kia Soul could attain this price point, the line for them would go around the country.
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