Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I would like to make it clear that I am not against electric vehicles because although I don’t believe in global warming climate change nonsense, I see it more to help lower our dependence and the strangle hold that the oil companies have over us. If they can build all EV’s with solar panels on top of the roof that can just recharge the battery throughout the day now that will save consumers a lot of $$$ in the future and put many happy smiles on peoples faces which in turn could start the push for an EV future that is truly affordable to the public and would make driving less expensive in the future compared to today. Now I’m all for that.
What I DON’T want to happen is either the federal or state government completely outlawing gas powered vehicles for the sake of the environment. The market will ultimately decide what’s best for them, EV or ICE vehicles, but just leaves us classic car enthusiast alone so we can enjoy cars from the past that actually had flair, cool style, and presence. Thank you.
I do agree we need to cut down on industrial pollution especially that drains into our water supply, our soil, and into the atmosphere. Cancer causing carcinogens that kill people when one lives near say an oil refiner.
But then I question, how will the automakers make money on services with EV’s?? With less parts, there’s less to go wrong= barely to ZERO maintenance.
Oil companies are going to slowly go broke and you know the Saudi Kings won’t take it easy on us and will fight to very end.
Another reason why vehicles weigh so much more today in certain cases compared to the past, (not all models have bloated in weight but many have) is because of all the technology features and air bags that have been installed in newish vehicles built within the last several years. Increased safety standards is probably one of the major factors as the other things come in afterwards for higher curb weight.
Even with the use of light weight materials some cars can be pretty heavy for their size. The fact is, the heavier a vehicle is, the safer it is. So we also don’t want vehicles weight only a 1,000lbs either as that would be extremely unsafe unless it was built out of titanium or something super light, yet strong such as carbon fiber. Those things are simply unrealistic as the cost to build a car/truck out of something so strong and light weight would be incredibly expensive.
Last edited by sdlife619; 09-27-2019 at 10:46 PM..
Electrification of a relatively compact but passenger/cargo-oriented runabout sounds like a good business proposition... but is of limited interest to me personally. I’m looking to electrification as a way to reduce vehicle size and mass to the minimum, essentially wrapping it around the driver. With a small battery suited only to short range, everything else can be small and light. The structure of the vehicle gets lighter and smaller, so now the brakes can be smaller too. Power-steering is no longer necessary… a manual rack is fine. If the vehicle is a roadster (open cockpit), a climate-control system is obviated (wear a helmet!). And so forth. Electrification – namely, a light motor and lack of support systems such as ignition, intake, exhaust, fuel-flow, cooling etc. – results in a light, simple, reliable and inexpensive vehicle.
When I read your post, all I could think about was a guy riding an E-Fat (electric all-terrain) bicycle while wearing one of those anti-grizzly bear suits for safety. Add in some ear buds for tunes and an air conditioning pack on your back, and you'd have the ideal "minimalist" vehicle, but I don't think they'd let you on the freeway with it, LOL. But I do get where you're coming from.
Part of the problem with what you're describing, though, is the limited use outside of one-person transport. Most people have families, pets, and want to be able to bring home a jumbo pizza, which would be tough in what would amount to a big electric go-cart. I think we're stuck with the same minimum-sized electric cars as we are ICE cars, which is about the size of a Leaf or Bolt, and I think the only way you're going to get people to abandon their Grand Cherokees for one of those, is if gas goes to six or eight bucks a gallon, which I don't see happening unless Iran nukes Saudi Arabia. Not to be a broken record, but I put 90,000 miles on a 1990 Ford Festiva 3-door, which was very compact on the exterior, with a very large cockpit area (but almost no back seat room). Minimum maintenance and essentially zero repairs (oil, brakes, tires, wheel bearings and one tune-up the whole time I owned it). It was a Mazda 3 design, built by Kia for Ford. I'd buy one of those things again in a heartbeat, and better yet if it were electric. It was NOT a car to pick up chicks, but I paid off my house by driving that and not giving a rat's patoot what other people thought. Better yet, an electrified Suzuki Jimny 3-door. But I'm dreaming, I guess, automakers no longer want to bring a small, efficient, rugged and cheap vehicle to the USA, lest they kill the sales of the forty grand Explorers.
Location: “Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who
129 posts, read 66,936 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlife619
Is there something shady going on behind close doors amongst our Governments and Automakers?
Yes!
Automakers are switching because they invested in (batteries) tech companies.
The car companies owned gas and oil stocks not the other way around.
Oil and gas companies didn't invest in car companies and now its biting them in the butt.
You see the push back to our lowering MPG requirements, they say no thanks.
They will keep pushing batt tech until its cheaper than internal combustion.
Gasoline is going to become so cheap and they will keep making it until they just cant sell it anymore so go ahead and build that 768ci Big Block 2000 HP Hemi that only gets 5 gallons to the mile and god speed JG.
Part of the problem with what you're describing, though, is the limited use outside of one-person transport. Most people have families, pets, and want to be able to bring home a jumbo pizza, which would be tough in what would amount to a big electric go-cart. I think we're stuck with the same minimum-sized electric cars as we are ICE cars, which is about the size of a Leaf or Bolt, ...
You're probably right. Americans are enthralled with larger vehicles, even if nearly the complete totality of cars in rush-hour have a single occupant, with no cargo beyond a laptop-case. Then there's the demise of the sports-car and also of the motorcycle. Those who want a smaller car, generally do so for reason of frugality, environmentalism or ease of urban-parking. It's almost never because they want a more nimble machine that offers more visceral sensations at street-legal speeds.
40 years ago was the heyday of the "personal luxury coupe". This wasn't a small vehicle, but it was intended for a single occupant, with features like 2 doors and a vestigial back seat. The intent was that the young people of the time, wanted a symbol of freedom and young-adulthood. Even if they weren't necessarily keen on a sporting-car, in the sense of tight handling or nimbleness, they wanted to convey a status of independence and individuality. Today's young people would have none of it. It never did quite register with me, why a young man of 20 would want a vehicle with 4 doors (sedan, SUV or truck). And an older man of 55 or 60, who'd formerly buy a Corvette or 911, now gets a King Ranch mega-cab 4x4 truck.
Perhaps the only good solution is in the aftermarket. Individuals are getting creative, doing things like swapping Tesla Model-S rear assemblies into Miatas and Datsun 204Z's. Probably somebody out there is doing a Caterham/Lotus-7 electric conversion.
So you try to change the argument again when proven wrong - this is like the 3rd or 4th time you have done so. I never compared oil to EVs. Then you resort to name calling. If anyone is spewing propaganda it is you. You are just proving that you don't have a clue.
name calling?
Lets make this clear. You've never proven me wrong. Maybe you think you have, but that's just being delusional.
Oil and gas get tax credits and deductions that are typical of all companies in any industry. Given the huge swing to natural gas, those same tax credits are applicable to the natural gas side of those tax breaks that provides a lot of the electrical production that makes your EV possible.
You've simply proven that the IRS provides tax breaks for companies attempting to make a profit. You haven't listed any subsidies meant to give oil and gas companies an edge over any other competitive technology which of course doesn't exist unless you're talking oxen and horses.
If you need over two hundred miles range then you've also got the Kia Soul EV (243 miles), Nissan Leaf Plus (226), and Kia Niro (239).
You've also got the Audi e-tron (that's pushing it though at 204 miles), Jaguar I-Pace (234), Porsche Taycan (~220), Model X (up to 325), and Model S (up to 370), but those are really expensive.
If you can hold on to the Cherokee for another year or two, your options for 200+ miles range will probably get a lot wider with the addition of the Volkswagen hatchback and CUV, Volvo XC40, Polestar 2, Model Y, Rivian SUV (well, maybe a bit longer who knows if they'll make their timeline), Ford CUV and Nissan CUV. These and several others have targeted releases for 2020 or 2021 though who knows how many of them will actually make those dates. Probably most.
I'd like to get another three or four years out of the Cherokee. By that point, I think we'll have more practical EVs. I'd really like to see something in a crossover platform with a 300+ mile. With rare exception, that would get me to everywhere I regularly go.
Lets make this clear. You've never proven me wrong. Maybe you think you have, but that's just being delusional.
Oil and gas get tax credits and deductions that are typical of all companies in any industry. Given the huge swing to natural gas, those same tax credits are applicable to the natural gas side of those tax breaks that provides a lot of the electrical production that makes your EV possible.
You've simply proven that the IRS provides tax breaks for companies attempting to make a profit. You haven't listed any subsidies meant to give oil and gas companies an edge over any other competitive technology which of course doesn't exist unless you're talking oxen and horses.
I'd like to get another three or four years out of the Cherokee. By that point, I think we'll have more practical EVs. I'd really like to see something in a crossover platform with a 300+ mile. With rare exception, that would get me to everywhere I regularly go.
Yea, I think three to four years sounds like enough time for that. Technically, you can get a Model X with 325 mile range right now, but it’s a pretty hefty price.
I do wonder how expensive say a full on Ford F-150 EV truck would cost in the future knowing the power output that it would need to tow such heavy loads. I can’t imagine the size of the batteries in those things!
EV’s are great in smaller vehicles, but can automakers be able to make large EV SUV’s affordable to its customers? This is the million dollar question. America needs to rid itself of foreign manufacturing and production as that is a very dangerous economic situation if the U.S. has trade tensions like we do with China at the moment as it gives so much power to China to cut off supply production to U.S. companies. How will auto manufacturers be able to handle and obtain rare earth minerals that is needed for battery production if those countries aren’t willing to do business with them? This can severely affect their ability to produce EV’s.
I truly believe that gas powered vehicles will be around for a very long time, I just don’t think the U.S. is willing to spend so much money on infrastructure to handle the EV and autonomous revolution. I mean our state Government in California can’t even fix or patch up potholes for crying out loud, what makes you think they’ll be willing to spend the money on EV recharging stations and other improvements. As a matter of fact the government wants LESS people to drive in states and cities where public transit isn’t an option for the majority of residents like in San Diego. This doesn’t make any damn sense. Big SoCal cities like Los Angeles, and San Diego aren’t built to get around by a train or a trolley. Unless one lives in the urban core you might not necessarily need a car to get around, but the majority of people live in the suburbs and outskirts of town where a vehicle is definitely needed in order to get around. The government has this fairy tale analogy that everyone is willing to accept riding a bus and the train to work. Are they high or something!!?? Because there’s no way in hell you’re going to take people away from their cars to commute to work and back when so many areas in the county and the city the train and bus routes don’t cover!
It’s like state leaders think the public is stupid or something and are willing to go by what they think is right without any regard on public opinion. It’s not realistic and not fair on the state spending so much money towards public transit while totally neglecting the streets and freeway maintenance. BTW unless bullet trolleys become available in the future and the trolley is able to cover the vast amounts of San Diego county, then maybe it would make somewhat of a difference, but when it takes 2 hours to go a few miles or more taking the bus and trolley vs going a few miles in 10 minutes in my car, it’s a no brainer, the car is better, faster choice of transportation . Time is precious and nobody likes to waste it.
Now THIS is an EV that I'd seriously consider buying!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Because there’s no way in hell you’re going to take people away from their cars to commute to work and back when so many areas in the county and the city the train and bus routes don’t cover!