Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Electric rates are different all over the U.S. Here is what the U.S. Government say's the rates are. Also note the increases and the population centers with these higher rates.
All of the variables you mentioned about battery life are debatable.
Blackouts do happen, storms do occur, Back-up batteries and solar panels may fix it long term but E.V. are a new technology that have yet to figure many of their future problems out yet. Many more blackout occur in the U.S. then you think.
The cost of the battery that you are comparing to the engine and drive train is fair. However remember the I.C.E. car industry is not sitting on its hands while the E.V's roll out. I.C.E. have already proven themselves to be capable of doing 1.000,000 miles on a drive train by adding a larger oil pan and upping the oil filtering capacity. At minimal cost in the grand scheme of things.
You are ignoring the fact that EV rates are often significantly cheaper than the average rate - places with higher electricity rates tend to have higher gas prices also. There is no place that gas is cheaper than EV charging at home to fill up. There may be places that commercial chargers may charge higher rates than gas but there are also commercial chargers that are free. The Target near my house has free charging for any EV.
Electric blackouts are a very regional thing - when I lived in LA, we had a couple every year, in Chicago we had maybe one significant outage a year. In almost 20 years in CA, we have experienced only two blackouts that lasted more than an hour, and only one covered a large area that might impact EV usage. I experienced one major wind storm on a trip that delayed charging but it knocked out every gas station within 50 miles also.
Battery warranties periods are different than lifetime of the battery, similar to I.C.E. vehicle engines. Tesla warrantee for S &X is 8 years, unlimited miles, model 3 is 8 years 125,000 miles. There are EV cars with original Batteries that have well over 150,000 miles, some much higher. There are reports that say that Tesla batteries have a useful life of about 500K miles - https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16...-500000-miles/
Quote:
Way back at the dawn of the electric car era — about 10 years ago now — the knock on electric cars was that their batteries wouldn’t last 100,000 miles. Owners would be forced to pay many thousands of dollars to replace them every few years. What’s the point of saving a little bit of money on gasoline if you have spend megabucks to buy a new battery on a regular basis?
You still hear this from fossil fuel advocates trying to scare people out of buying electric cars, but a survey of 350 Tesla drivers by a European contingent of Tesla owners reveals that such concerns are not warranted. Actual Tesla owners report about a 5% drop in battery capacity by the 50,000 mile mark but after than, the rate of degradation drops considerably. On average, cars with 160,000 miles on them still have 90% of their battery capacity remaining. Projecting forward from the real world data available, a Tesla battery should still have 80% battery capacity after 500,000 miles of driving, the group claims. The vast majority of internal combustion engines would have stopped functioning long before then.
I think that 500k is a little wishful thinking but over 300K has been proven. Model 3 has significantly better batteries and may reach the 500K that Elon claims it should.
The average I.C.E doesn't do 1M miles without significant repairs, all of those listed except the one driving on a dyno has had at least one engine or transmission rebuild. EVs haven't been around long enough to have that much history but one has 900K KM (about 560K Miles) with original motor and second battery. https://insideevs.com/news/359939/te...ters-odometer/
Quote:
Gemmingen has already covered 900,000 km (559,350 miles) according to two images shared on July 14. The Model S P85 (one of the oldest versions) is reportedly running on its second battery pack. That's a remarkable amount of miles for any car and few gasoline-engined cars would go that far without an engine replacement.
One thing that has not been mentioned is electric companies not charging for off peak hours. Advertised as energy free nights or weekends. Here in Houston you can charge your vehicle in off peak hours for free.
One thing that has not been mentioned is electric companies not charging for off peak hours. Advertised as energy free nights or weekends. Here in Houston you can charge your vehicle in off peak hours for free.
I wish it was free here in CA.
It is kind of funny that in CA, the super-off-peak rate (that is the actual term they use) is higher than the normal rate in NV.
You're paying for extra battery capacity. What you have is a $37500 car that cost $50K. The extra $12500 is basically a larger "gas tank" and not more car.
I must have missed that $37500 car that corners like it’s on rails, has instant torque, and goes 0-60 in 4 seconds. I paid for the car I liked the most at the price point.
I think the biggest assumption and failure here is the life of the battery. It was assumed that hybrid batteries would only last 8-12 years. We now know that even the earliest mainstream hybrid batteries last double that while maintaining 70-90% of their initial charge.
I'd imagine that the higher quality batteries being used in today's electric cars would last either that long or longer.
I'm a bit of an industry expert in this space (energy storage, generation, etc... not automotive -- although I'm an enthusiast in that space). What you say is true, but what's even more impressive is how the batteries have performed in climates with extreme temperatures. It was assumed that in these regions, the batteries would need to be replaced more often, however, data shows that this is not the case. Colder areas do decrease the battery capacity until the battery is warmed up, however.
You're paying for extra battery capacity. What you have is a $37500 car that cost $50K. The extra $12500 is basically a larger "gas tank" and not more car.
I'm not sure if you've been to a new car lot recently, but based on this post, it doesn't appear so. $37500 doesn't buy you a performance sedan like it used to. You're looking closer to $100k for a car that handles like the Tesla.
I'm not sure if you've been to a new car lot recently, but based on this post, it doesn't appear so. $37500 doesn't buy you a performance sedan like it used to. You're looking closer to $100k for a car that handles like the Tesla.
There's nothing in the interior to suggest a $100K car or even a $50K car. It's a $30K car with a decent powertrain.
But otherwise you're missing the point. There's a $9000 upcharge just to get an additional 70 miles of range (price difference between a long range and base model). The performance upgrade is just $8000 from that. In theory you could have had the performance model for $9000 less had it not been tied to the long range battery. You then would have an even better performance car because you wouldn't have all that dead weight to sling around.
I'm a bit of an industry expert in this space (energy storage, generation, etc... not automotive -- although I'm an enthusiast in that space). What you say is true, but what's even more impressive is how the batteries have performed in climates with extreme temperatures. It was assumed that in these regions, the batteries would need to be replaced more often, however, data shows that this is not the case. Colder areas do decrease the battery capacity until the battery is warmed up, however.
What skews the data is the fact that modern EV batteries are vastly oversized and most are only using 10% of the battery for commuting while they've paid for 90% more battery than they actually needed. The users in cold climates are generally coming from Norway where that vast majority of the population is urban with shorter commutes.
What skews the data is the fact that modern EV batteries are vastly oversized and most are only using 10% of the battery for commuting while they've paid for 90% more battery than they actually needed. The users in cold climates are generally coming from Norway where that vast majority of the population is urban with shorter commutes.
What the f are you talking about? It gets plenty cold in Colorado and I drive to Vail regularly.
Much of E.V. issues come down to the battery cost and battery longevity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99
What a bizarre bit of analysis and discussion by the OP! And the OP's most recent link has nothing to do with how to extend the life of ICE.
Worse, to totally neglect the life cycle costs of maintenance in a claimed financial analysis is just not reasonable. Just consider the cost of oil changes (full synthetic these days) over 100K for example. I have yet to see an electric that requires those?
Much of E.V. issues come down to the battery cost and battery longevity.
Here are a number of examples. When it comes to E.V. car sales prices drop greatly when the traction battery is in need of replacement or the traction battery's warranty is about to expire. As mentioned earlier in the thread potential battery energy cost big bucks.
To take it a step further when the above mentioned battery warranty has just expired or is about to expire the trade in value at the new car dealer or anywhere else isn't much.
So many people at that point end up selling the car themselves because they feel they can do better. Which brings us to ebay where money talks and the rubber hits the road.
Here is what I found that sold in the past 90 days on Ebay surrounding this battery conversation.
Note the cost of these cars originally then do the math.
And I repeat doubling up on oil capacity and filter capacity are how big trucks have been passing 1,000,000 miles on their odometers for more then 50 years.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I wish it was free here in CA. 
Much of E.V. issues come down to the battery cost and battery longevity.
