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Old 11-05-2019, 07:10 PM
 
12,547 posts, read 9,835,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getatag View Post
Capability of F-150 vs Tundra

In its most capable form, that is, equipped with the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, but in non-Raptor guise, the F-150 has a towing capacity of 13,200 pounds and offers a max payload of 3,270 pounds. In its least capable configuration, which is equipped with the 3.3-liter V6, the F-150 can tow up to 7,700 pounds and haul up to 1,990 pounds.

Equipped with the more powerful 5.7-liter V8, the Tundra can tow up to 10,200 pounds and offers a max payload capacity of 1,730 pounds. Equipped with its base-level 4.6-liter V8, the least-capable Tundra's towing and payload capacities are 6,800 pounds and 1,600 pounds, respectively.

Overall, the F-150 can tow and haul more than the Tundra in all comparable configurations, while also offering greater fuel efficiency.
From what I gather, very few people are willing to tow 10k+ with a half ton so these max ratings are often just marketing. Typically the truck with the highest ratings is something like a 2wd single cab.

Most people buy the 4x4 crewmax/SuperCab and I believe both are rated around 10k lbs.

I think for 95% of people almost any new full size truck will cover their towing needs. Those looking for 10k lbs+ are often shopping heavy duty trucks.
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:24 PM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,896,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Here’s a bet - if the economy is still doing well in a few years, I bet Toyota will crush their previous Tundra sales record and move at least 225,000 new/updated models in their first year.
They can't get there even if they wanted to right now. As soon as they decided to give-up trying to make San Antonio a 100% Tundra plant they gave up hope on doing much more than 150K Tundras per year. They are stuck unless they build a new plant or move Tacoma production out of there, neither of which is happening anytime soon.
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I never said the Tundra is class leading in any way or that it’s any kind of sales leader. I simply said that starting in 2007 Toyota legitimized themselves as an extremely capable full size truck producer. That alone doesn’t guarantee sales in such a brand loyal segment, but it definitely goes a long way toward redefining their image in the segment and laying the groundwork for future trucks 5, 10, 20 years down the line. Starting in 2007, the Tundra was no longer a truck that “manly” men could snicker at.

Now that I think about it - the butt hurt due to Toyota’s fire breathing 381hp V8 in 2007 was kinda funny. A lot of brand loyalist were totally caught off guard.

I don’t have any data but I bet a lot more people will consider a Tundra now. Of course that doesn’t mean they’ll buy a Tundra because there are 5 other good/great full size trucks on the market. The Silverado/Sierra/F150/Ram have been significantly updated/redesigned several times since the Tundra debuted in ‘07. Therefore it’s no real shocker that Toyota only sales around 120k units yearly.

If one visits a Tundra forum there are owners that will in detail explain why they purchased a Tundra. Not everyone that buys one is some kind of blind loyalist.

As far as sales - who cares? Toyota obviously sees a reason to continue producing the Tundra...and I guarantee they’ll be producing it in 2020, 2021, 2022...etc, etc. I have no idea what Toyota’s return on investment has been on the Tundra, but I guessing it’s a profitable vehicle to produce. If nothing else they likely learned a lot during their first real attempt at entering the segment. The Tundra is now a bonafide full size pickup.

I’m actually kinda shocked that Toyota has sold so many Tundras. Despite being way overdue for a redesign they’ve consistently sold about 118k Tundras for the last 6 years.

As a consumer - I don’t care if Toyota ever reaches “big 3” volume (sounds like Toyota doesn’t care either). I simply like having choices and I look forward to seeing what Toyota does next with the Tundra. Competition is good for the consumer.
Toyota has been steadily increasing the (non-public) dealer cash on the Tundra since 2012 and that is what kept their sales numbers where they are. The dealer cash has more than doubled in the past 5 years. (From $2,000/unit in 2015 to $5,000/unit this year.)
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Old 11-05-2019, 08:51 PM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,896,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
Toyota has been steadily increasing the (non-public) dealer cash on the Tundra since 2012 and that is what kept their sales numbers where they are. The dealer cash has more than doubled in the past 5 years. (From $2,000/unit in 2015 to $5,000/unit this year.)
Also, look at the attached chart. While staying in that 100-120K sales range per year might seem like an accomplishment, look how much the competitors are running away from them. Staying flat in a growing segment means you are losing market share. That's not good....
Attached Thumbnails
Trade in Tundra for F150 ?-full-size-pickup-sales-jan-2010  
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:30 AM
 
12,547 posts, read 9,835,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
Also, look at the attached chart. While staying in that 100-120K sales range per year might seem like an accomplishment, look how much the competitors are running away from them. Staying flat in a growing segment means you are losing market share. That's not good....
To be fair Toyota has been pretty lazy with updating the Tundra. Imagine if the 2007 F150/Silverado/Ram were being sold today with only mild refreshes and the same engines (anemic 4.6L or 5.4L Ford V8s anyone?). Talk about dogs.

It’s a miracle that what amounts to a 15 year old truck can even find 5,000 potential buyers. I guess that’s a compliment to Toyota doing a pretty good job in ‘07.

Regardless, Toyota seems to have a healthy mix of competitive vehicles across the board so perhaps their business model doesn’t heavily rely on US full size truck sales. That could be a really good thing for them if we see the economy slow and/or gas prices rise.

I’m betting Toyota will sell 250,000+ Tundras in their first year once they update the truck...new engines/interior/etc. They’ll get their usual 120k buyers plus a lot of current 2007+ Tundra owners looking to upgrade. I’ve tossed around the idea of a truck (maybe Tundra or F150) but don’t really want to pull the trigger until I know more about what Toyota is doing with the 2021 Tundra. 400+hp/20+ mpg and it will be the Tundra all day (biased as my family has had excellent service from Toyota products...not so much Ford/GM/Dodge).
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Old 11-06-2019, 02:02 AM
 
1,355 posts, read 1,909,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
To be fair Toyota has been pretty lazy with updating the Tundra. Imagine if the 2007 F150/Silverado/Ram were being sold today with only mild refreshes and the same engines (anemic 4.6L or 5.4L Ford V8s anyone?). Talk about dogs.
I only wish that Toyota didn't discontinue the 4.0L V6 in Tundra at end of 2014 model year.
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Old 11-06-2019, 03:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
Toyota has been steadily increasing the (non-public) dealer cash on the Tundra since 2012 and that is what kept their sales numbers where they are. The dealer cash has more than doubled in the past 5 years. (From $2,000/unit in 2015 to $5,000/unit this year.)
Sounds good for those that do like the Tundra.

I’ve been looking at what people are paying on a Tundra forum and it seems they get around $7k off MSRP. That means around $40k for a crewmax. I’ve also been looking at what used Tundras sell for and surprisingly even 10 year old 4x4 crewmax models are listed for around $20k+. A $40k truck that’s worth $20k+ 10 years later? That seems pretty good!
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:00 AM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,896,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
To be fair Toyota has been pretty lazy with updating the Tundra. Imagine if the 2007 F150/Silverado/Ram were being sold today with only mild refreshes and the same engines (anemic 4.6L or 5.4L Ford V8s anyone?). Talk about dogs.

It’s a miracle that what amounts to a 15 year old truck can even find 5,000 potential buyers. I guess that’s a compliment to Toyota doing a pretty good job in ‘07.

Regardless, Toyota seems to have a healthy mix of competitive vehicles across the board so perhaps their business model doesn’t heavily rely on US full size truck sales. That could be a really good thing for them if we see the economy slow and/or gas prices rise.

I’m betting Toyota will sell 250,000+ Tundras in their first year once they update the truck...new engines/interior/etc. They’ll get their usual 120k buyers plus a lot of current 2007+ Tundra owners looking to upgrade. I’ve tossed around the idea of a truck (maybe Tundra or F150) but don’t really want to pull the trigger until I know more about what Toyota is doing with the 2021 Tundra. 400+hp/20+ mpg and it will be the Tundra all day (biased as my family has had excellent service from Toyota products...not so much Ford/GM/Dodge).
I don't know about the rest of you but I'd rather spend money and date the girl who is interested in taking care of herself as she ages rather than the girl who is going to do nothing but sit in the corner and get fat. (For those who don't understand my terrible analogy Tundra is the fat lady here. LOL.)

Even with the Tundra refresh that's coming their production plan is 150K units/year max. It will take some major, major changes for them to exceed that. (Build another plant or decrease Tacoma production in San Antonio which they don't want to do, and can't do it right now as they have nowhere else to make that Tacoma production up.)

Bottom line is they only have XXX units of pickup truck production available between two plants, and the Tundra is only built at one of them. They are kind of stuck there.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Lee County, NC
3,317 posts, read 2,297,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
Toyota has been steadily increasing the (non-public) dealer cash on the Tundra since 2012 and that is what kept their sales numbers where they are. The dealer cash has more than doubled in the past 5 years. (From $2,000/unit in 2015 to $5,000/unit this year.)
Still much lower than what Ford, GM, and FCA are throwing at the F-150, Silverado/Sierra, and Ram.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:35 AM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,896,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodyfromnc View Post
Still much lower than what Ford, GM, and FCA are throwing at the F-150, Silverado/Sierra, and Ram.
Not really....I said DEALER cash was $5K. Not Customer Cash, that is another element altogether. Dealer Cash + Customer Cash = Total Incentives. Dealer cash is typically the hidden incentives that customers don't know about.

So right now on a Tundra they are giving the dealers $5,000 cash per truck PLUS they give the customer's $1,000 cash back and 0% financing.

There is no dealer cash on the Ford/GM trucks. (F-150 has no customer or dealer cash, but 0% financing is offered.) Ford and GM rarely use dealer cash programs. Just a little different philosophy there by the respective dealer networks when it comes to that.
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