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I'm not sure I understand the "brand report" list as relates to these in the "best you can buy" lists for the different price ranges. Except...the price range lists of "best you can buy" are specific models, while the general brand reports card list is just the manufacturer & includes all models, the good and the not so good ones?
Regarding the criteria used for this overall brand ranking, per Consumer Reports:
"How We Rank the Car Brands
Brand report cards are built on an average of the Overall Score for each model tested. A brand must have at least two models tested to be included. The Overall Score is based on four key factors: road test, reliability, owner satisfaction, and safety.
• The road-test scores are for vehicles purchased by CR and run through more than 50 tests.
• Reliability predictions are based on problems reported by CR members in 17 trouble areas.
• Owner satisfaction from surveyed CR members reflects whether drivers would purchase the same car if they had it to do again.
• Safety includes crash-test results and extra points awarded for proven advanced safety features that come standard for the model."
Personally, I do my own reading outside CR, and check out vehicles on my short list at the dealer, go through them thoroughly, and take them for a test drive. I have also signed up at owners' forums to see what they like, don't like, and are having issues with.
In terms of an objective, rational, data-based, compact summary, I don't think there's any better source of info than Consumer Reports reviews. They don't take advertising. They aren't dependent on the cooperation of car-makers, they buy the vehicles themselves. It's engineers testing them, not snarky frat boys. They make sure to do consistent testing under reproducible conditions on a test track and compare them apples-to-apples. They record objective data with instruments as well as more subjective impressions. Reliability data is based on statistics collected from hundreds of thousands of owners and broken down into useful categories. Respondents can only provide input once. If they don't have enough data to have reasonable signal-to-noise, they don't report a figure, just as they should do. That's a long list of methodological advantages over the alternatives.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 02-22-2020 at 06:30 AM..
I noticed American cars are at the bottom of that list.
Consumer Reports are concerned about safety, reliability, I keep that in mind when I read their reports
I do occasionally read CR, and while I do typically value their opinion, when it comes to cars, I don't usually follow their advice.
They always rank American cars far lower than imports. In my life I've owned something like 16 cars, and 14 of them were American, one was a Volkswagen, and we now have a Mazda Miata for a summer fun car.
The Volkswagen was BY FAR the most unreliable car I owned, and cost me thousands of $$ over the 5 or so years I owned it to keep it running. It had CV joint problems, it had fuse block shorting problems, it had radiator/cooling problems and would overheat on warmer days, it had a broken coil spring once, it needed new struts after about 70K miles, it had fuel pump problems, it had a plugged catalytic convertor once, it developed small round rust spots randomly in the paint, up high, where there shouldn't be rust, it would stall, or sometimes just not start after being run for a while on hot days...and the only thing the dealer could suggest is that it was "vapor locked". Let it sit for a while to cool off, and it would start again.
Of all the problems listed above, in my other 15 cars, 14 of them American built, some of which have been driven up to 196K miles, I've never had to change a CV joint, I've never had a fuse block problem, I've never broken a coil spring, never had a plugged catalytic convertor, never had random rust spots above the very bottom of the car (typical salt belt rust areas), never been stalled due to "vapor lock", and typically don't even consider new struts until 125K miles. I have replaced two fuel pumps at 155K and 169K....and that's about it.
The other 14 American made cars (1 Plymouth and 13 GM models) have all been good reliable cars for the time I owned them. Yes, some were been better than others, but NONE of them were even remotely as bad as that Volkswagen. And...at the time (I was 23 years old) I bought the Volkswagen, it was by far the newest car I had ever purchased with about 45K on the clock....unfortunately, it was out of warranty when I bought it.
So tell me what you will about how bad American cars are compared to imports, and I'll agree there are some really good imported car brands, and we absolutely love our Mazda Miata "fun car"....but given decent maintenance, and a reasonable driver, for my daily driver, I'll stick with my American cars thank you!
Regarding the criteria used for this overall brand ranking, per Consumer Reports:
"How We Rank the Car Brands
Brand report cards are built on an average of the Overall Score for each model tested. A brand must have at least two models tested to be included. The Overall Score is based on four key factors: road test, reliability, owner satisfaction, and safety.
• The road-test scores are for vehicles purchased by CR and run through more than 50 tests.
• Reliability predictions are based on problems reported by CR members in 17 trouble areas.
• Owner satisfaction from surveyed CR members reflects whether drivers would purchase the same car if they had it to do again.
• Safety includes crash-test results and extra points awarded for proven advanced safety features that come standard for the model."
Personally, I do my own reading outside CR, and check out vehicles on my short list at the dealer, go through them thoroughly, and take them for a test drive. I have also signed up at owners' forums to see what they like, don't like, and are having issues with.
In terms of an objective, rational, data-based, compact summary, I don't think there's any better source of info than Consumer Reports reviews. They don't take advertising. They aren't dependent on the cooperation of car-makers, they buy the vehicles themselves. It's engineers testing them, not snarky frat boys. They make sure to do consistent testing under reproducible conditions on a test track and compare them apples-to-apples. They record objective data with instruments as well as more subjective impressions. Reliability data is based on statistics collected from hundreds of thousands of owners and broken down into useful categories. Respondents can only provide input once. If they don't have enough data to have reasonable signal-to-noise, they don't report a figure, just as they should do. That's a long list of methodological advantages over the alternatives.
I disagree completely. consumer reports is a scam, and they are an extremely shady company. consumer affairs gives them 1/5 stars based on consumer reviews. they steal money, have shady billing practices, and sell personal data. they also accept money from the ford foundation, so not sure how that's any better than accepting money from ford. I don't really understand the frat boy complaint, so I will leave that one alone. consumer reports is a shady rag, nothing else. their data is garbage, and it honestly does not reflect long term reliability. they will give a vehicle a poor rating if there is a problem with the infotainment system on the top of the line model. the car might be incredibly reliable, but because of a few problems with advanced technology, they make it seem like a bad vehicle.
I do occasionally read CR, and while I do typically value their opinion, when it comes to cars, I don't usually follow their advice.
They always rank American cars far lower than imports. In my life I've owned something like 16 cars, and 14 of them were American, one was a Volkswagen, and we now have a Mazda Miata for a summer fun car.
The Volkswagen was BY FAR the most unreliable car I owned, and cost me thousands of $$ over the 5 or so years I owned it to keep it running. It had CV joint problems, it had fuse block shorting problems, it had radiator/cooling problems and would overheat on warmer days, it had a broken coil spring once, it needed new struts after about 70K miles, it had fuel pump problems, it had a plugged catalytic convertor once, it developed small round rust spots randomly in the paint, up high, where there shouldn't be rust, it would stall, or sometimes just not start after being run for a while on hot days...and the only thing the dealer could suggest is that it was "vapor locked". Let it sit for a while to cool off, and it would start again.
Of all the problems listed above, in my other 15 cars, 14 of them American built, some of which have been driven up to 196K miles, I've never had to change a CV joint, I've never had a fuse block problem, I've never broken a coil spring, never had a plugged catalytic convertor, never had random rust spots above the very bottom of the car (typical salt belt rust areas), never been stalled due to "vapor lock", and typically don't even consider new struts until 125K miles. I have replaced two fuel pumps at 155K and 169K....and that's about it.
The other 14 American made cars (1 Plymouth and 13 GM models) have all been good reliable cars for the time I owned them. Yes, some were been better than others, but NONE of them were even remotely as bad as that Volkswagen. And...at the time (I was 23 years old) I bought the Volkswagen, it was by far the newest car I had ever purchased with about 45K on the clock....unfortunately, it was out of warranty when I bought it.
So tell me what you will about how bad American cars are compared to imports, and I'll agree there are some really good imported car brands, and we absolutely love our Mazda Miata "fun car"....but given decent maintenance, and a reasonable driver, for my daily driver, I'll stick with my American cars thank you!
I agree with the last paragraph of your post except for the gray area of American cars...
I disagree completely. consumer reports is a scam, and they are an extremely shady company. consumer affairs gives them 1/5 stars based on consumer reviews. they steal money, have shady billing practices, and sell personal data. they also accept money from the ford foundation, so not sure how that's any better than accepting money from ford. I don't really understand the frat boy complaint, so I will leave that one alone. consumer reports is a shady rag, nothing else. their data is garbage, and it honestly does not reflect long term reliability. they will give a vehicle a poor rating if there is a problem with the infotainment system on the top of the line model. the car might be incredibly reliable, but because of a few problems with advanced technology, they make it seem like a bad vehicle.
That rant doesn't deserve a point-by-point, but it's just straight up false.
I do occasionally read CR, and while I do typically value their opinion, when it comes to cars, I don't usually follow their advice.
They always rank American cars far lower than imports. In my life I've owned something like 16 cars, and 14 of them were American, one was a Volkswagen, and we now have a Mazda Miata for a summer fun car.
The Volkswagen was BY FAR the most unreliable car I owned, and cost me thousands of $$ over the 5 or so years I owned it to keep it running. It had CV joint problems, it had fuse block shorting problems, it had radiator/cooling problems and would overheat on warmer days, it had a broken coil spring once, it needed new struts after about 70K miles, it had fuel pump problems, it had a plugged catalytic convertor once, it developed small round rust spots randomly in the paint, up high, where there shouldn't be rust, it would stall, or sometimes just not start after being run for a while on hot days...and the only thing the dealer could suggest is that it was "vapor locked". Let it sit for a while to cool off, and it would start again.
Of all the problems listed above, in my other 15 cars, 14 of them American built, some of which have been
:
:
For what it's worth, Consumer Reports' published data shows the reliability of most VWs as poor, so your experience is like their typical subscriber's experience on your VW. The data also shows most cars under the Mazda brand as quite reliable, so that is in agreement as well. Of course buyers really need to drill down to both model and year for more specific info.
Last edited by OutdoorLover; 02-22-2020 at 10:01 AM..
That rant doesn't deserve a point-by-point, but it's just straight up false.
His rant...
"I disagree completely. consumer reports is a scam, and they are an extremely shady company. consumer affairs gives them 1/5 stars based on consumer reviews. they steal money, have shady billing practices, and sell personal data. they also accept money from the ford foundation, so not sure how that's any better than accepting money from ford. I don't really understand the frat boy complaint, so I will leave that one alone. consumer reports is a shady rag, nothing else. their data is garbage, and it honestly does not reflect long term reliability. they will give a vehicle a poor rating if there is a problem with the infotainment system on the top of the line model. the car might be incredibly reliable, but because of a few problems with advanced technology, they make it seem like a bad vehicle."
...is **NOT** false. They proclaim themselves to be a lot of things they aren't. After working with them personally for years I can attest and verify most of this "rant" is more accurate than not.
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