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While Toyota trucks are out of date and gas guzzlers, their durability is unmatched and to disregard that is very diminishing of one's credibility. The Tacoma is perhaps the most bulletproof vehicle on the market right now. Even as a Ford guy, I can admit that.
While Toyota trucks are out of date and gas guzzlers, their durability is unmatched and to disregard that is very diminishing of one's credibility. The Tacoma is perhaps the most bulletproof vehicle on the market right now. Even as a Ford guy, I can admit that.
The Tacoma is a decent truck but not really any more bulletproof than a Ranger or Colorado/Canyon.
When it comes to the Tundra, though, that one is not anywhere near competitive when it comes to strength and durability. The chassis of that truck is embarrassingly weak and can't be used for anything other than light on-road duty. (Frame rails, suspensions, axles, cross-members, control arms, etc are all thin-gauge steel - nothing like a Ford, GM or Dodge pickup.)
The Tacoma is a decent truck but not really any more bulletproof than a Ranger or Colorado/Canyon.
When it comes to the Tundra, though, that one is not anywhere near competitive when it comes to strength and durability. The chassis of that truck is embarrassingly weak and can't be used for anything other than light on-road duty. (Frame rails, suspensions, axles, cross-members, control arms, etc are all thin-gauge steel - nothing like a Ford, GM or Dodge pickup.)
2. That is Ford's Arizona Proving Ground. No bias there LOL. But with that small detail aside, to me it looked like the Chevy was losing its composure even more so than the Toyota.
Don't know about the Ranger, it's still new. But the Colorado/Canyon is ABSOLUTELY not up there with the Tacoma. Their transmissions are garbage, you listen to the suspension even in new ones it sounds like they are going to fall apart soon. I wouldn't touch one of those with 10 foot pole. Sure they look nice though.
Where did you get the Tundra's chassis is weak? Never heard that once. No its payload and towing capacity is not up there with the Big 3, but very few half ton buyers will ever push those limits. Stuff like mileage, interior and other features are what keeps the average buyer away from the Tundra, hence their low sales. If you're using it for any kind of heavy duty, you want a 3/4 ton anyway.
For people who like to bash the American auto companies with the tired line of "oh, they can't sell in those countries due to not making vehicles those people want" I ask you this:
If Korea and Japan were truly open markets then explain to me why:
1) Almighty Toyota and Honda can't manage more than a 1% market share in South Korea?
2) Why can't Hyundai manage to sell more than 1% in Japan, either? (Now it's zero since they just pulled out of that market.)
Those are two of the most protectionist economies in the world. Even if Ford and GM made fabulous cars they would still struggle to sell there given the roadblocks in front of them, no different than Toyota and Honda struggle across the pond in South Korea.
That doesn’t answer the questions I posed though—how do the Big 3 automakers do in markets that don’t have large native automakers? How do the Big 3 do compared to other non-native automakers in countries that do have large domestic automakers?
As for your specific examples, South Korea, including its consumers, has incredibly strong anti-Japanese sentiment today due to the decades of Japanese occupation though Lexus/Toyota is still the third best selling import for South Korea in 2019 despite the trade war towards the end of the year. The Japanese public also has a pronounced anti-Korean sentiment for various reasons plus almost no foreign automakers put an emphasis on the kei cars that Japan strongly favors. Have you tried driving and parking in major Japanese cities before? There’s good reason for kei cars and trucks to be popular there given their urban layouts, and while some European automakers do make a few vehicles that could qualify as such, kei cars also sell on the fact that they are affordable to purchase and operate compared to larger vehicles. This generally means low profit margins on those vehicles which means the costs of shipping overseas can make up a more significant portion of the vehicle costs and meanwhile investing the capital for setting up a factory and supply chain to make such is highly risky if you are unsure you can sell at large volumes to make up for the smaller margins.
I don’t want to **** on US automakers at all—I was a Chrysler fanboy since sipping a juicebox coming out of an innumerable variety of cupholders while riding in a family friend’s Town & Country. The first vehicle I bought using money I saved up tutoring in middle school and high school was a used Dodge Caravan that cost more to insure, maintain and operate in its first two years than it did to purchase and I still loved the hell out of that car. My dreamcar right now is an electric Camaro convertible that has classic styling with ridiculous torque and an even more ridiculous frunk that I can put a sleeping bag in. However, I do think they’ve made some really poor choices though I’m also cognizant of the fact that it’s impossible to accurately say what steps in what sequence they should have taken that would have definitely lead to better results. One thing I think many of us can agree there was a decently long stretch of time where the US automakers were selling woefully unreliable vehicles compared to many competitors and that wasn’t just to people in the US. That’s a kind of tarnish that takes a while to recover from in the buying public—at least here, there are a lot of people cheerleading and passing the good word that things have changed drastically since those days, but there’s understandably not nearly as vocal a contingent doing the same elsewhere outside of the US for US automakers. That’s one possible factor in this, but there are other things that also feel like missteps to me.
Anyhow, let’s circle back to the questions I posed earlier about sales abroad: how do the Big 3 fare in countries that do not have large domestic automakers? How do the Big 3 fare compared to other non-native automakers in countries that do have large domestic automakers? Even in the link you sent, what are the largest import automaker groups in South Korea? What’s frustrating about the South Korean market in regards to US automakers is that GM made what could have been a masterstroke by swooping in on the Daewoo fire sale and gaining SK domestic plants and design teams in the aftermath of the East Asian financial crisis in the late 90s to early 00s. SK has a massive STEMs pipeline and solid automotive talent—where did GM go with that?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-09-2020 at 11:24 PM..
why:
1) Almighty Toyota and Honda can't manage more than a 1% market share in South Korea?
2) Why can't Hyundai manage to sell more than 1% in Japan, either?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
As for your specific examples, South Korea, including its consumers, has incredibly strong anti-Japanese sentiment today due to the decades of Japanese occupation though Lexus/Toyota is still the third best selling import for South Korea in 2019 despite the trade war towards the end of the year. The Japanese public also has a pronounced anti-Korean sentiment for various reasons plus almost no foreign automakers put an emphasis on the kei cars that Japan strongly favors. H
Yes, this.
For example it's very apparent and ugly when Japanese soccer teams play in SK.
Never saw a Korean car in Japan.
2. That is Ford's Arizona Proving Ground. No bias there LOL. But with that small detail aside, to me it looked like the Chevy was losing its composure even more so than the Toyota.
Don't know about the Ranger, it's still new. But the Colorado/Canyon is ABSOLUTELY not up there with the Tacoma. Their transmissions are garbage, you listen to the suspension even in new ones it sounds like they are going to fall apart soon. I wouldn't touch one of those with 10 foot pole. Sure they look nice though.
Where did you get the Tundra's chassis is weak? Never heard that once. No its payload and towing capacity is not up there with the Big 3, but very few half ton buyers will ever push those limits. Stuff like mileage, interior and other features are what keeps the average buyer away from the Tundra, hence their low sales. If you're using it for any kind of heavy duty, you want a 3/4 ton anyway.
I know the video is from 2007 and that actually makes it worse for Toyota given they haven't invested any money into that program or upgraded the chassis since then.
The Ranger is not a new pickup, it's been around for years but only recently introduced into the US.
As far as the chassis on the Tundra being weak, I have seen the Tundra torn apart and each part side by side vs the others. I have seen what those parts look like after 300,000 miles of durability testing. It's absolutely comical how weak and chintzy those parts were, and how badly they were mangled/broken after those long term tests. That's part of the reason why their tow rating is lower, etc. That's not just important for work trucks but when you live in states with a lot of potholes and that truck is constantly getting jarred that's where the strength of the chassis comes into play.
I don't know how anyone can even defend this. They introduced that truck in 2007 and haven't put any money into that program since, while Ford, Dodge and GM have done numerous major product changes/upgrades along the way. Toyota is just banking on blind Toyota loyalists to sell that Tundra and letting it rot as it gets older, and that's why the market share continues to decline every year.
Anyhow, let’s circle back to the questions I posed earlier about sales abroad: how do the Big 3 fare in countries that do not have large domestic automakers? How do the Big 3 fare compared to other non-native automakers in countries that do have large domestic automakers? Even in the link you sent, what are the largest import automaker groups in South Korea? What’s frustrating about the South Korean market in regards to US automakers is that GM made what could have been a masterstroke by swooping in on the Daewoo fire sale and gaining SK domestic plants and design teams in the aftermath of the East Asian financial crisis in the late 90s to early 00s. SK has a massive STEMs pipeline and solid automotive talent—where did GM go with that?
That's an almost impossible question to answer because all the largest auto markets have a "home team" automaker - there is not a big market where there is no large domestic automaker in the region. If you look outside of North America, Europe and Japan/Korea/China there isn't many big markets left.
South America and Australia are two markets that come to mind and the results are mixed and pretty even across the board. In South America Renault (micro cars), GM, FCA, Honda and Ford are the top players. In Australia Holden (GM), Ford, Mazda, Hyundai, Toyota and Mitsubishi seem to be the top players there.
Where do you see there is a $10K rebate? I don't see that....
Even if that was true, if you give up the 0% financing to get it you are not netting-out a $10K discount, anyway, given the interest you would pay on the loan.
Stop the crazy talk, police depts use tahoes because they can take a beating and still run for years. Never seen a GX cop car......`
You're right! I have never seen a GX as a police vehicle. Lexus GX is built on a Land Cruiser Prado platform, matter of fact it is a re-badged Land Cruiser. Many police departments around the world use them as police vehicles.
Even so, I think that poster may be getting confused between a dealer ad of "$10K off MSRP" versus an actual manufacturer rebate. Those are two different things....(or maybe even an add that shows "package savings" and other stuff buried in there, too.)
I've seen one dealer do an add for a high rebate like that (they called it Bonus Cash) but you had to finance with Ford Credit to get it, and it would be standard interest rates, too. (There was also a pre-payment penalty there, too, so the dealer did not get charged back on their finance reserve.)
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. But with that small detail aside, to me it looked like the Chevy was losing its composure even more so than the Toyota. 
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