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Old 08-20-2020, 03:22 PM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,609,185 times
Reputation: 25616

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Crossovers are just wagens. Don't know why Americans hate hatchbacks and wagons but they keep buying all the crap that are just the same with bigger wheels. That Honda HRV? That is a damn hatchback like the old Civic hatchback, lifted by 2" How could they release that Toyota C-HR, that is the most pathetic car I ever drove. It handles poorly, the CVT transmission is worst than the Prius. CVTs require electric motor, because it helps get the car off the line without waiting for the engine to respond. That is the #1 prob with CVT is that engines are not in the right revs to get the car going. Having an electric motor greatly helps a CVT car get off the line.
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Old 08-20-2020, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Paradise CA, that place on fire
2,012 posts, read 1,715,273 times
Reputation: 5861
Crossovers are just wagens. Don't know why Americans hate hatchbacks and wagons but they keep buying all the crap that are just the same with bigger wheels."

You are correct and it doesn't matter what are they called, but better ground clearance and visibility matters.
I remember a neighbor who had a 911 when we lived in Orange County. Once I watched him spending 3 minutes getting from his garage to the street trying to save his oil pan. We had an Accord which wasn't so bad as long as you went in and out at a creeping pace.

Now we have 2 Korean crossovers, and yes, they are nothing more than glorified hatchbacks, but I can see out of them better than from our former Honda and the garage in-and-out is smooth and easy.

Our Accord was longer / took up more space than the Santa Fe Sport. But I couldn't carry my kayak in it, heck, the crossover carries nearly twice as much stuff than a Camry or an Accord.

Last edited by mgforshort; 08-20-2020 at 04:54 PM..
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Old 08-20-2020, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Born + raised SF Bay; Tyler, TX now WNY
8,400 posts, read 4,654,450 times
Reputation: 8283
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgforshort View Post
Crossovers are just wagens. Don't know why Americans hate hatchbacks and wagons but they keep buying all the crap that are just the same with bigger wheels."

You are correct and it doesn't matter what are they called, but better ground clearance and visibility matters.
I remember a neighbor who had a 911 when we lived in Orange County. Once I watched him spending 3 minutes getting from his garage to the street trying to save his oil pan. We had an Accord which wasn't so bad as long as you went in an out at a creeping pace.

Now we have 2 Korean crossovers, and yes, they are nothing more than glorified hatchbacks, but I can see out of them better than from our former Honda and the garage in-and-out is smooth and easy.
Comparing a 911 to almost anything else is a bit of a cop-out. Pretty much any standard driveway will comfortably accommodate a sedan or wagon. Owning a sports car means owning a whole other set of obligations and problems. And the 911 is probably the best all-arounder of any sports car.

As for visibility, everything’s been compromised by safety standards. We’ve required physically more structure around car occupants for a while, and that’s reduced glass area by quite a bit. If you mean height, well, that’s a bit moot when everyone else is on stilts too.

I’d rather take the visibility hit at normal height and have a longer/lower profile in a wagon with a lower CG, than the more upright look and feel, probably gaining 5% in aero benefits along the way with better road holding.

A minivan is still the magic place for moving people and things. Same people capacity with better versatility for things, and potentially better MPG.

The crossover thing is weird. So compromised that it’s neither fish nor fowl.
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Old 08-21-2020, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
13,258 posts, read 22,755,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post

As for visibility, everything’s been compromised by safety standards. We’ve required physically more structure around car occupants for a while, and that’s reduced glass area by quite a bit. If you mean height, well, that’s a bit moot when everyone else is on stilts too.
And yet Subaru still manages to make vehicles with lots of visibility. The Forrester seems to put acres of glass around you.
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Old 08-22-2020, 10:03 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,409,600 times
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The best mechanics agree that Toyota, Honda, and perhaps Mazadas are far better for long term reliability. Subaru never resolved their historic issues with head gaskets, Hyundai, Kia, and Nissan still have transmissions that wear out faster than the top brands.

So for me it's only a battle of Toyota C-HR vs Honda HRV vs Mazda CX3. Can't go wrong with any of them.
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Old 08-23-2020, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,400 posts, read 46,396,388 times
Reputation: 19524
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
Mmmmk. Never said it wasn’t a fairly decent car. Just that’s there’s nothing that SUVish about it. Subaru manages to build non-SUVs and convince people, somehow, that they are. They started that with the Forester.
The ground clearance of the Crosstrek is greater than many larger vehicles that are above its class. It comes in handy in snowy locations in the US.
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Old 08-23-2020, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Boilermaker Territory
26,400 posts, read 46,396,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
And yet Subaru still manages to make vehicles with lots of visibility. The Forrester seems to put acres of glass around you.
I would argue that the 1st and 2nd generations have the best visibility overall. I was thinking of retiring my 04 but having the rear backing plates replaced. Yess, rust damage strikes again.
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Old 08-29-2020, 04:53 AM
 
7,461 posts, read 7,091,752 times
Reputation: 2780
Of all these vehicles, I would avoid the C-HR.

Crosstrek is still the crossover to beat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
The best mechanics agree that Toyota, Honda, and perhaps Mazadas are far better for long term reliability. Subaru never resolved their historic issues with head gaskets, Hyundai, Kia, and Nissan still have transmissions that wear out faster than the top brands.

So for me it's only a battle of Toyota C-HR vs Honda HRV vs Mazda CX3. Can't go wrong with any of them.
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Old 08-29-2020, 05:27 AM
 
Location: NC
5,429 posts, read 5,968,319 times
Reputation: 9227
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
The best mechanics agree that Toyota, Honda, and perhaps Mazadas are far better for long term reliability. Subaru never resolved their historic issues with head gaskets, Hyundai, Kia, and Nissan still have transmissions that wear out faster than the top brands.

So for me it's only a battle of Toyota C-HR vs Honda HRV vs Mazda CX3. Can't go wrong with any of them.
I think you are late to the party with the Subaru head gasket issues. They have been resolved for 10 years.
Those issues were on the N/A engines, the turbo engines had a different head gasket and never experienced the leaking.
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Old 08-29-2020, 08:13 PM
 
7,461 posts, read 7,091,752 times
Reputation: 2780
Yes, heard that before too and information is so out of date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by getatag View Post
I think you are late to the party with the Subaru head gasket issues. They have been resolved for 10 years.
Those issues were on the N/A engines, the turbo engines had a different head gasket and never experienced the leaking.
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