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Old 05-20-2008, 10:53 AM
 
Location: WA
5,640 posts, read 24,856,716 times
Reputation: 6573

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If you could get more power out of water than required to extract it you could economically develop a hydrogen infrastructure... but you can't, it takes more power than you get. That is why all hydrogen produced comes from natural gas.

There is promising research that uses water and consumes aluminum and gallium to produces hydrogen but it is still in the lab and will be for a while.

These simple devices may well change the way some engines run but they are not introducing fuel.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,540,014 times
Reputation: 24856
This is a carefully concieved device designed to separate fools from their money.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:16 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,987 posts, read 21,841,268 times
Reputation: 7007
My dad was a Mechanic, as am I, and my youngest son also. All three of us have at one time experimented with doing different things to the auto engine. This is called R&D. Some things fail and others may work for a little while but never on a long term scale. My son tried water injection on his 327 chevy and gave EXCELLENT gas mileage untill he MELTED a piston. At least he tried. As for me, I'm a VW air cooled mechanic (now retired). Some yrs back had a pile of used engine parts collecting dust for the scrap man and with nothing to do one Sun thought, why not build a 2 cyl engine with the parts. So I did. It did not have a lot of power in a 68 bug (weight facter) but did take me down the freeway at 35 mph for a few miles up and back before any CHP were to catch me for going too slow on the fwy. The principal and theory is there for many who think like myself, problem is to PERFECT the theory into mass production for the masses. Steve
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:45 PM
 
681 posts, read 2,870,734 times
Reputation: 544
They tested this on Mythbusters. It didn't work. I'm not saying it can't... I'm just saying that if it really was viable, it would already be in mass production for the people who want super-efficient cars since the technology has (supposedly) been around forever.
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,257,306 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean98125 View Post
jimhcom, what you're describing isn't a system powered by water, but by electricity. You either pull electricity out of your engine or from a separate battery to cause an electrolytic reaction in water, and the resulting gases are then added to the combustion mix. The water isn't powering anything. Since it is impossible for an electrolytic reaction to generate more energy than it uses, you are still talking about a net loss when you take all power sources into account.

Your fuel economy went up because you are adding energy to the system in the form of injected gases. You could have the same effect by adding a turbocharger, supercharger or even a ram air scoop to your engine.
Am I missing something? Where in my post does it say anything about being powered by water? Also according to the genuises in this thread, turbo charging and supercharging can not work, as like a hydrogen booster, they must take more power to run than they produce. I really do not have any stake in this one way or the other, I was only passing on my own experience. I did not intend to get caught up in a Abbot and Costello routine.
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Old 05-20-2008, 02:42 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 11,337,018 times
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My bad, jim - I see now that you're essentially describing something like a nitrous oxide injection system, except using an electrolytic reaction from water as a source for the gas.
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Old 05-20-2008, 04:00 PM
 
Location: The Frenchie Farm, Where We Grow 'em Big!
2,080 posts, read 6,898,533 times
Reputation: 1084
I'm not trying to swat at a hornet's nest on this discussion, but I'm still getting mixed reviews.....


YouTube - Green Machine Solutions Inc.

Half of my friends say yeah! And half say I'm smoking crack!
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,722,835 times
Reputation: 29967
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Am I missing something? Where in my post does it say anything about being powered by water? Also according to the genuises in this thread, turbo charging and supercharging can not work, as like a hydrogen booster, they must take more power to run than they produce. .
They do take more power to run than they produce (ever hear of the laws of thermodynamics?), but they work anyway because they recapture energy that would otherwise be lost as waste. I don't see how these hydrogen boost systems do that and I have yet to receive an explanation from any of the hucksters schilling for these things how they do.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:02 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,257,306 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
They do take more power to run than they produce (ever hear of the laws of thermodynamics?), but they work anyway because they recapture energy that would otherwise be lost as waste. I don't see how these hydrogen boost systems do that and I have yet to receive an explanation from any of the hucksters schilling for these things how they do.
Now you are confusing me, how exactly does a supercharger recapture energy. Look the point is that some people in this thread seem to be confusing perpetual motion with improving effecientcy. The air/fuel ratio is
14 to 1 out of that 14 parts of air 80% of it is inert nitrogen, and contributes nothing to the power stroke. By introducing a more explosive air mixture one that contains more oxygen combined with hydrogen, you are increasing cylinder power and effeciency. The 10 amps it takes to generate this gas is no more load than bolting on a set of 100w driving lights. If you understand how EGR works then you know engines do not burn all the fuel in a cyl. do to oxygen starvation. I am not trying to convince the flat earth society of anything, and I am not suggesting that you buy anything. These are simple devices that someone with a good background in mechanics and chemistry can build. Do not attempt to build one if you do not have an extensive background in mechanics and chemistry as you are dealing with highly explosive gasses and may cause a fire or explosion.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,722,835 times
Reputation: 29967
OK... after all that, I'm still at "I don't see how these hydrogen boost systems do that and I have yet to receive an explanation from any of the hucksters schilling for these things how they do."
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