hho... does it really work? (vehicle, selling, prices, sensor)

[JBrown]

SO it's now 11:40 EST ...I missed the broadcast..anyone see this and better yet...is there a vid of it on youtube ???


BlueLite...you recorded this I bet...put it up on you tube and give us all the link..

[Donn2390]

[quote=BlueLightnin;4Not too many years ago, only Al Gore had dreamed of an internet. QUOTE]

Well now you have really done it. If you are one of the three people in the universe who believe Al gore invented the internet, you don't need to say any more. From that one statement, we can figure out exactly what kind of person we are dealing with.
That was one of many huge lies big Al tried to put over on the people some years back that convinced the world what a lieing loser he was/is.....
I will watch your program with great interest, if I can find it, but I already know what to expect.....

[Steve Bagu]

If my memory serves me correctly, it was in 1946-47 first car production era after the war that a rumor floated around about a person who invented a 100 MPG carb and Detroit bought him out for I believe was a $50,000 or $100,000 dollars. Time sure flies and rumors never die. Steve

[BlueLightnin]

Originally Posted by JBrown

SO it's now 11:40 EST ...I missed the broadcast..anyone see this and better yet...is there a vid of it on youtube ???


BlueLite...you recorded this I bet...put it up on you tube and give us all the link..

It would be against the rules of youtube to upload it there, unless KJRH would give me permission to upload it. But I bet it's on KJRH web site. I'll go see if I can find a link to it there. The second car they tested it on was a 2001 Tahoe it only saw about a 10% increase in gas mileage. And it was tested by students at the university, and the professor there, said that he would still have to see more, maybe a dozen vehicles before he gives it his nod. He said, there's just too many variables, for him. So anyway the KJRH site is Segment 2 - KJRH.com (http://www.kjrh.com/content/news/franchises/segment2/default.aspx - broken link) for the page with the link to the HHO segment. I don't see the video but the story is at Water Powered Cars - KJRH.com Also they were in Pryor, OK. last week, so if you wanna see that http://www.kjrh.com/Photo.aspx?slide...8-e1d7955917fd You can see our little town. I'll see if I can get my recording into a format for the web. My recorder is VHS. But I have a friend in Chouteau with some video stuff that can probably fix me up.

[BlueLightnin]

Originally Posted by JBrown

SO it's now 11:40 EST ...I missed the broadcast..anyone see this and better yet...is there a vid of it on youtube ???


BlueLite...you recorded this I bet...put it up on you tube and give us all the link..

Ok it's there. It's almost 5 minutes long and is compressed down to 25 MB so it may take it a while to download. Here's the URL http://pages.sbcglobal.net/bluelightnin/hydroxygen/hho1.wmv (broken link)

[scuba steve]

They did it on Mythbusters a few weeks ago. Didn't work.

[GracieJJ]

10%?? Is that all

All the while others have come up with a firgure of 30%

[BudinAk]

Donn2390: That's the craziest idea I ever heard..! You expect me to spend my time, energy, and money on something that can't work, to prove it can't work?

A: Yep! I DO expect you to prove what you are saying is correct! I don't care what it costs you, or how much time it takes you...that's not my problem. You don't install it to "prove that it doesn't work". You install it to find out whether it works, or doesn't work...

I have my proof, this gadget has been promoted now for at least 15 years, if not more.

A: Probably true...maybe even longer than 15 years...

Not one has ever proven to work.

A: I dunno....I am hearing from quite a lot of people that it DOES work...

If they did work, ever car in America would have one in that length of time, yet no reputable firm has ever marketed such an item.

A: Not neccessarily. Water freezes. How would the car manufacturers solve that problem? They would have endless warranty claims from freeze-damaged equipment for like...forever. But...the device is being marketed on local TV in my area right now...

No one wants to build a simple, inexpensive devise that would make them the wealthiest man in the world...?

A: No one? LOT'S of people are building them. Do a search on the internet. My guess is you'll find DOZENS of sources. (Maybe even hundreds) And they are all over Ebay...

You tell me, if you could build these in your garage in a couple of hours, and guarantee a minimum of a 30% mileage increase, would you or would you not become fabulously wealthy in a very short time period?
Use a little common sense...

A: You CAN build one in your garage in a few hours. However, I don't recall ANYONE guaranteeing a minimum of 30% mileage increase...

Comments: To not try something, say you aren't going to try it, then proclaim boldly in public that it "can't possibly work" sounds an awful lot to me like the naysayers who scoff at some inventors. (remember the Wright Brothers "dumb" flying-machine idea? Everybody knows people can't fly...) Just because we don't understand how something could work, doesn't neccessarily mean that it can't work!

That's why I say if your're going to make a authoritative statement on a forum, then offer at least a little PROOF that your statement is correct. I mean, you say that this idea won't work. But....you have no experience with it? And you say you will never try it? Well, ok then...that's fine...it's your right. But...no big surprise if some might have doubts about your thoughts on this gadget. It's not anything personal...it's just how I react when I see statements tossed about on a forum...it's kind of a thought "filtering process" I go through.

I personally don't know if this gadget works or not...I'm not promoting it one way or the other. You see...I haven't tried one either...

Peace
Bud

[Donn2390]

I shan't waste my time replying to each of your points, but for a few quick one...

A: I dunno....I am hearing from quite a lot of people that it DOES work...
My answer.. I should say, "No ofne of any credibility", just some people who fell for the scam.
A: No one? LOT'S of people are building them. Do a search on the Internet. My guess is you'll find DOZENS of sources. (Maybe even hundreds) And they are all over Ebay...
My answer... Very true. this scam is the hottest subject on the net right now, and lots of people hoping and wishing are building them. No one with any knowledge would touch the junk. Just because there are scam artists who would take your sucker money, it doesn't mean the thing works, but with gas prices where they are, everyone wants to believe.
A: You CAN build one in your garage in a few hours. However, I don't recall ANYONE guaranteeing a minimum of 30% mileage increase...
My answer....You're right again, I was off on the 30%. They are guaranteeing 70% and more...!
I personally don't know if this gadget works or not...I'm not promoting it one way or the other. You see...I haven't tried one either...
My answer.... sounds to me like you should be building one to test, I already know the answer.
To save me much work, just read this in it entirety. It debunks many of the scam devices, along with the water generator.

Fuel saving gadgets - a professional engineer's view
The point is that you cannot get more energy out of Hydrogen and Oxygen made through electrolysis than you originally put in. Therefore, trying to run your car off of Hydrogen you create using energy from the engine is the same trying to make a perpetual motion machine. Like plugging a generator into a motor, that powers the generator. Efficiencies kill you and the machine doesn't work.

Listen to the scientists, not the back yard J$ck offs....

[JBrown]

My thoughts thus far..............
OK..I watched the video link...

1st off I think anyone with an IQ above room temperature should agree that you use more energy seperating the H2 from the O in water than you get back burning just the H2 + O. That's a clear cut given. High school chemistry.

However.... One of the problems with this entire discussion is that , that is a gross over simplification of the situation. Nearly all of the setups I see on Youtube for example have the ouput from this electrolysis gadget feeding into the input induction system where it mixes with ambient air and normal fuel (gasoline). Thats a very different thing than just burning the H2 and O alone. That would clearly be a perpetual motion machine and I ain't buying any of that.

I'm not as sure however that adding H2 or O, dosen't have some other effect upon the "normal" combustion process and componets that might increase the efficency somehow. I'm not going to say it dose or dosen't. I don't know. But it wouldn't be the first time that adding trace amounts of something to normal gasoline has changed it's operating characteristics. (think tetra ethal lead for example).

Regarding the video (thxs Bluelite). There were two things that "bothered" me. There was a comment from the guy who is commercially making these things, that engines waste 15% of the fuel right out the tail pipe (or something like that...(I watched it yesterday)..That can't be even close to true...the catalytic converter would self destruct from over heating in Very short order. Secondly in todays closed loop EFI control systems the onboard systems are working in real time to try to maintane a near Stoichiometric air/fuel ratio. (aprox 14.7:1) When someone makes over the top statements like that I really call into question any other claims made by them. He also said you just fill it up with distilled water and you're all set. Last time I checked distilled water wasn't coming outta my tap..that cost money to make too.

Here's another wack idea. If you build it correctly it's easy to get the H off of one electrode and the O off the other. Build the gas generator unit at home, powered off the grid,( can you say make it HUGE ? ), compress the generated gases into small portable cylinders that will mount in the car...sorta like a NOX setup. Then you don't have the freezing concern etc during the winter . It should however, what with the Gasoline,Hydrogen and Oxygen, make for some really spiffy car fires though .