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Old 02-04-2022, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
19,591 posts, read 21,746,341 times
Reputation: 16934

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
The F-150 Lightning is not built on an all-new EV platform. But it's not just a crude EV conversion as you're stating. It has a skateboard chassis with the batteries low in the frame in a plane, and one electric motor up front powering the front wheels and another in the rear driving the rear wheels, and it has an independent rear suspension. In other words, no, this is not a crude conversion of the "regular" F-150.
https://insideevs.com/news/529736/fo...lling-chassis/

Moreover, the range is rated at something like 300 miles - which is not bad at all, and, reports from the field indicate that Ford has deliberately under-reported range so as to provide this stated range when towing, and the actual F-150 range when unloaded is said to be well over 400 miles, perhaps close to 500 miles.
https://topelectricsuv.com/news/ford...ic-new-update/

And furthermore, can you name all the electric pickups that are less expensive than the Lightning, if you're saying it's dramatically overpriced?
Problem is it starts at $75,000 for the 300 mile range one. $35,000 is a lot of coin to spend on an extra 70 miles. Not really thrilled with either of the offerings. At $40,000 it's a great price but the range is too short. I'm not really short exactly what to make of the poor tow rating there either. On the one hand I can't get to worked up about it as even though it's only got the tow rating of a midsize crossover the range is probably just too limiting for it to matter a whole lot that it it's not very capable. But it does hit that 5,000 pounds which would be enough lightweight aluminum car trailer to tow down for track days. I'm close enough it wouldn't be totally miserable for the local tracks. At $75,000 I wouldn't have the range anxiety going up to Bend which I usually do once or twice a year. But I'd just deal with having to charge over 80% and hope they put in another charger somewhere rather than spend $35,000. But yeah, in flyover states the limited range is going to be a big issue.

There's very few EV offerings that can tow a lightweight car trailer and a small car. Model X, Rivian is really it until the F-150 and Silverado come out. I'd definitely get the Rivian over the F-150 at $75,000. It's a ridiculous truck with a stupidly short toy poodle of a bed. As a trophy truck though I do like it where the F-150 is only really interesting because it's utilitarian while still being efficient. The gasoline trucks are vastly superior as trucks but much less efficient.
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Old 02-04-2022, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Saint Johns, FL
1,948 posts, read 1,961,205 times
Reputation: 2081
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
GM Bolt is dead.



https://autos.yahoo.com/chevy-bolt-b...183500420.html


The EVs batteries will be the equivalent to spent fuel (nuclear power) only worst by overloading an aging electrical system and polluting the planet (more than modern ICE).



Future generations will not look kind at us for embracing EVs "revolution"...
Are you serious Clark?

This is 1000% false. First, firms (like Redwood Materials) are tripping over themselves setting up battery recycling because used car batteries are extremely valuable (and useful). There's no way they are letting something worth thousands of dollars just sit around. Redwood Materials is saying they can re-use 95% of the batteries, make them better than original, and have enough material already to supply the batteries for 45,000 cars. Ford has invested in them. And there are plenty of other coming on line.

Secondly EV batteries while still in the cars will eventually be a grid resource, adding power to the grid when needed (Vehicle to Grid). It's already being done on a VERY limited scope. What will come even sooner is Vehicle to Home technology, where the car is your emergency generator powering your home during outages.
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Old 02-04-2022, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
19,589 posts, read 34,561,175 times
Reputation: 15753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newporttom View Post
Are you serious Clark?

This is 1000% false. First, firms (like Redwood Materials) are tripping over themselves setting up battery recycling because used car batteries are extremely valuable (and useful). There's no way they are letting something worth thousands of dollars just sit around. Redwood Materials is saying they can re-use 95% of the batteries, make them better than original, and have enough material already to supply the batteries for 45,000 cars. Ford has invested in them. And there are plenty of other coming on line.

Secondly EV batteries while still in the cars will eventually be a grid resource, adding power to the grid when needed (Vehicle to Grid). It's already being done on a VERY limited scope. What will come even sooner is Vehicle to Home technology, where the car is your emergency generator powering your home during outages.
At the moment it is more expensive to recycle an EV battery than it is to built one. There are several companies "saying" that they can recycle from 95-98%, but there is none showing how that is possible, nor how much it would cost to recycle it. I believe there is a Canadian company that can recycle an EV battery that yields more materials than most, but the cost is so great that it makes no sense to do so.

Can you tells us who is already adding power to the grid from his or her EV battery?
https://enrg.io/can-electric-vehicle...s-be-recycled/
Quote:
Yes, electric vehicle batteries can be recycled. But not as cost-effective as one may expect, as the cost of recycling is more expensive than the cost of mining and creating a new battery. Extracting lithium from old electric vehicle batteries is more costly than mining and processing lithium. So the safest bet is reusing the old car batteries.
This is the Ford deal you are talking about:
https://www.morningbrew.com/emerging...ycling-startup
Quote:
But, but, but...For now, it’s still cheaper to make batteries from newly mined materials than recycled ones. Experts expect the economics to change as the Fords of the world begin pumping out EVs, as has happened with the much less valuable lead-acid batteries used in gas-powered cars: 98% of lead-acid batteries are currently recovered or recycled.—DM
The point is that these companies are experimenting with different recycling methods for the future of recycling EVs as you can read here:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/t...l-classic-cars
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:21 AM
 
Location: In the heights
35,022 posts, read 34,362,003 times
Reputation: 19263
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
At the moment it is more expensive to recycle an EV battery than it is to built one. There are several companies "saying" that they can recycle from 95-98%, but there is none showing how that is possible, nor how much it would cost to recycle it. I believe there is a Canadian company that can recycle an EV battery that yields more materials than most, but the cost is so great that it makes no sense to do so.

Can you tells us who is already adding power to the grid from his or her EV battery?
https://enrg.io/can-electric-vehicle...s-be-recycled/


This is the Ford deal you are talking about:
https://www.morningbrew.com/emerging...ycling-startup


The point is that these companies are experimenting with different recycling methods for the future of recycling EVs as you can read here:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/t...l-classic-cars
Much of what you're saying is oddly inaccurate. Redwood Materials which does battery recycling had already entered profitability by at least the beginning of this year, and that's just one company with its process albeit a very prominent one. There are a lot of other EV battery recycling processes and companies using such out there but figured I'd point to one that's among the most prominent in the field. Are they going to tell you exactly every part of their process and how to do it? Nah, I think they'll keep some of that internal because it's how they stay competitive in a very competitive business. They will release financials though to investors because they have to. Keep in mind, commodity prices for battery materials in recent months have increased far beyond wage growth or overall inflation, so if these battery recycling operations were profitable already last year, then they're probably doing gangbusters on a per kg of material recycled level now.

There are multiple pilot projects for vehicle to grid conducted in Japan, the Netherlands, and several other places. Nissan has been prominently doing so for its own headquarters and design centers and has been doing so for several years because as the CHAdeMO charging standard has vehicle-to-grid built into the standard from early on. California has also just approved a pilot as well. None at massive utility scale yet which is expected given the rather small total EV fleet size so far, but it's nice that there is this capability as well as local home backup which is not an ability that ICE vehicles offer. It's just a nice bonus on top of many other things EVs do better.

Try to remember these points as I believe these have been mentioned to you in the past.

As for the topic, I think with Toyota's announced limited production numbers and its rather meager specs released, GM's looking like the better bet for full EVs sold in 2022. The Hummer's not going to sell in large numbers, but I think the Lyriq will do alright as well the newly recommenced Bolt and Bolt EUV production.
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Old 05-17-2022, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
6,785 posts, read 3,648,057 times
Reputation: 11154
Whatever they do, please get those dang Prius drivers out of the left hand lane. If we're blocked, you'd come out ahead betting the front of the line is some moron in an underpowered Prius.
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