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They have to get out from under those pension and healthcare obligations. I read that GM alone has 600,000 retirees and spouses they're paying for. I can't remember exactly, but it works out to like $1500 per car....no way they can compete with the Toyotas and Hondas of the world.
I know it sounds cold, but the game has changed....if the US automakers fail, the retirees are out of luck anyway.
I would call it a little bit more than "harsh", are you going to take a little old lady who worked all of her life at GM and was promised her pension at the end of her career and just throw her out onto the streets. I really don't think that many of you are very familiar with what is really going on.
I would call it a little bit more than "harsh", are you going to take a little old lady who worked all of her life at GM and was promised her pension at the end of her career and just throw her out onto the streets. I really don't think that many of you are very familiar with what is really going on.
It's going to get ugly, for sure.
What the UAW never understood is that you shear a sheep, you don't kill it. I think the sheep is about to die. It will cause amazing hardship, I'm sure. But these folks used to do a lot of laughing. They laughed at people like me that pay $60 co-payments on EACH prescription, while they paid nothing.
But most of all, they laughed at those goofy looking '71 Toyota Corollas and Datsun B-210s.
Can the United States afford to lose GM, Ford and Chrysler? From a national security point of view, there are many that think that the US cannot let some of the big three go out of business. Who will build the tanks and trucks in the future if we get in a serious war with a country like Russia or China? I, for one, feel that the big three problems are primarily there own fault and doing. They have had since the mid 1980s to turn themselves around .
They have lost the passenger car market to the japanese and now face competion in the luxury car market and SUV market. They have built junk for so long that there are a lot of people in this counrty that will never buy a GM, Ford or Chrylser product ever again. Customers don't forget when they get burned. That is a lesson these companies have not yet learned.
Can the United States afford to lose GM, Ford and Chrysler? From a national security point of view, there are many that think that the US cannot let some of the big three go out of business. Who will build the tanks and trucks in the future if we get in a serious war with a country like Russia or China? I, for one, feel that the big three problems are primarily there own fault and doing. They have had since the mid 1980s to turn themselves around .
They have lost the passenger car market to the japanese and now face competion in the luxury car market and SUV market. They have built junk for so long that there are a lot of people in this counrty that will never buy a GM, Ford or Chrylser product ever again. Customers don't forget when they get burned. That is a lesson these companies have not yet learned.
then don't get into a war with Russia or China. Most other nations don't have 6000 nuclear warheads, yet they don't seem to worry that much about getting into war with either Russia or China. Big Three have been slow dying almost-zombies for 4 decades, nothing, absolutely nothing could change their behaviors, high gas prices, low gas prices, Republican administration or Democratic administration, technological break through or improvement in the science of management, yet Big Three stubbornly stick to their old way even though it has been clear fro 30 years that Japanese automakers are ahead of them on almost every account, yet they still refuse to learn. They are like old die-hard racists who despite the success of Jewish or Asian Americans, still refuse to change their behavior and learn even though they and their children have been stuck in their filthy trailers for their whole life. On the other hand, the other side of the whole mess doesn't help either, this is a nation where perennial adolescents constitute majority of the population, a nation values so called "manliness" above intelligence and thinking, a nation that trashes science and champions ignorance, no wonder people want to buy cars for supposedly "macho" image. Without a solid domestic customer base, Toyota wouldn't have invested so much so early in clean technology. Short-attention span and short-sightedness with absolute no regard to either sustainability or reality are two typical characteristics of America as a nation and America as a people. The argument made by "conservatives" against Kyoto Protocol is that it will hurt the economy, the same kind of argument is made by the same bunch of myopic politicians/voters alike to oppose increase emission standard, guess what? Car makers from nations that chose to force their big corporations to increase efficiency and standard are slaughtering Big Three.
In a nutshell, both the companies and the customers that prop up the companies are beyond redemption, just let whatever crisis sweep them to the dumpster, then we have the capital freed up to build something that truly meaningful and competitive.
>Should the Detroit 3 recieve some type of loan or bailout?
*YES, in order for GM and Chrysler to continue business they need some sort of loan, otherwise GM will go bankrupt some time next year. While Chrysler could totally collapse if they don't recieve help.
I say no, and here's why: someone will buy them. Like Toyota. There's been rumors of that in the recent years. If you bail these yahoos out, all it will do is give money to the people that continue to lose it. They'll **** it all away and come back asking for another bailout. Doesn't solve anything.
Now if they go bankrupt, it will sting. But you bet fast enough they'll get bought by someone who knows what the heck they are doing, the jobs will come back (if there's actually a lapse), and *gasp* they might even turn a profit again someday.
then don't get into a war with Russia or China. Most other nations don't have 6000 nuclear warheads, yet they don't seem to worry that much about getting into war with either Russia or China. Big Three have been slow dying almost-zombies for 4 decades, nothing, absolutely nothing could change their behaviors, high gas prices, low gas prices, Republican administration or Democratic administration, technological break through or improvement in the science of management, yet Big Three stubbornly stick to their old way even though it has been clear fro 30 years that Japanese automakers are ahead of them on almost every account, yet they still refuse to learn. They are like old die-hard racists who despite the success of Jewish or Asian Americans, still refuse to change their behavior and learn even though they and their children have been stuck in their filthy trailers for their whole life. On the other hand, the other side of the whole mess doesn't help either, this is a nation where perennial adolescents constitute majority of the population, a nation values so called "manliness" above intelligence and thinking, a nation that trashes science and champions ignorance, no wonder people want to buy cars for supposedly "macho" image. Without a solid domestic customer base, Toyota wouldn't have invested so much so early in clean technology. Short-attention span and short-sightedness with absolute no regard to either sustainability or reality are two typical characteristics of America as a nation and America as a people. The argument made by "conservatives" against Kyoto Protocol is that it will hurt the economy, the same kind of argument is made by the same bunch of myopic politicians/voters alike to oppose increase emission standard, guess what? Car makers from nations that chose to force their big corporations to increase efficiency and standard are slaughtering Big Three.
In a nutshell, both the companies and the customers that prop up the companies are beyond redemption, just let whatever crisis sweep them to the dumpster, then we have the capital freed up to build something that truly meaningful and competitive.
What a bunch of anti-american spew disguised as an evaluation of the big three... I will only buy American engineered automobiles and every time I come across foolish comments like this it only re-affirms my stand.
I like this comment the most... "a nation that trashes science and champions ignorance" Actually your the ignorant fool here... all your little asian buddies come here in droves to earn engineering degrees in our schools... the big dumb, macho American's are the ones holding the bulk of the education and the bulk of the worlds technology. As an engineer myself I am going to watch American companies pass the asians up once again in the next few decades, even the reliability ratings of our cars as of late have been surpassing japanese brands.
Your setting yourself up for a big time disappointment you hater.
For decades, Americans have been turning to foreign automakers. If the goverment bails them out, it will only help lessen the financial blow to the employees and retirees. It will take a miracle to get the American consumer to buy American again and you can't put a gun to their heads and force them to buy what they see as junk.
I believe we are nearing the end for the U.S.-headquartered auto industry, and good riddance. I have no sympathy for them; we struggled for decades in the south to get manufacturing, and the greedy unions would pitch fits when The Big 3 wanted to open up operations in non-union states like the Carolinas, or Georgia. Unions don't want "fair", they want no competition. They don't want a competitive wage, they want every penny they can get, and they want it from my wallet.
However, this isn't the end for the U.S. auto industry. We have plants from Volkswagen, Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Honda, etc., and things are humming along fine.
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