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Old 12-10-2008, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,359,579 times
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A decently well-equipped Genesis is about $35k. While investigating it at the auto show, I overheard no less than 3 people say "it's nice, but I am not paying that for a Hyundai."

The Genesis is too big a reach for Hyundai's target audience.


As for the Phaeton, I had the pleasure of driving one. Great car, just fantastic.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Northeast Tennessee
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I love the big VW too and its true, you can go on ebay and buy a 2004-05 for a fraction of its original $70K price.

Most people did not want to pay $70K+ for a VW, even if it was a luxury liner and they were only offered at certain "trained" dealers, due to the complexity of the car.
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Old 12-10-2008, 10:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
A decently well-equipped Genesis is about $35k. While investigating it at the auto show, I overheard no less than 3 people say "it's nice, but I am not paying that for a Hyundai."

The Genesis is too big a reach for Hyundai's target audience.


As for the Phaeton, I had the pleasure of driving one. Great car, just fantastic.
People pay $35k for an Accord and for a Camry, so I don't see people not paying that for a Hyundai, especially with the reputation its building.

The Phaeton's problem was it was a rebadged A8 - for $70k, who is going to buy a VW when they could buy an Audi?
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayantsi View Post
People pay $35k for an Accord and for a Camry, so I don't see people not paying that for a Hyundai, especially with the reputation its building.

The Phaeton's problem was it was a rebadged A8 - for $70k, who is going to buy a VW when they could buy an Audi?


Honda and Toyota spent 40 years building that rep. Hyundai has another 20 or so to go. And anyway, you answered your own question. Why pay $35k for a Hyundai experiment when you can get a class leader like a Camry or Accord.

Besides, the car will take such a dump in value and then you are stuck paying $700 a month for a Hyundai.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:16 PM
 
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Well, having driven a Genesis and a Camry and Accord, I can tell you the Genesis does drive better. Although for $35k, I wouldn't get any of the three, I'd get an Infiniti G37.
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Old 12-10-2008, 11:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sayantsi View Post
The Phaeton's problem was it was a rebadged A8 - for $70k, who is going to buy a VW when they could buy an Audi?
It's not a rebadged A8. It predates the current-gen A8 by a model year, and was miles ahead of the D2 A8 that was being sold at the time. Certain aspects/ideas/engineering of the current D3 A8 come from the Phaeton, but they're still two different cars from two different platforms. The real descendant of the Phaeton is the Bentley Continental.

I suppose the decision to make it a VW vs. an Audi came from the ego to make the car under the "parent" company... bad decision, of course, as they had to learn the hard way how much people care about the stupid logo.

The A8 had more of a "BMW customer feel" whereas the Phaeton went after the Merc buyer with its laundry list of superhuman feats I mentioned in my last post. They used an aluminum frame on the A8 vs steel on the Phaeton leading to a sportier/lighter drive vs. the focus on luxury from the Phaeton. As time went on and the Phaeton sales were dismal, the mid-cycle refreshes to the A8 have tried to close the gap ad make the A8 a little gentler and slightly more isolated, since this original plan of having two cars for two markets clearly wasn't working.

Last edited by tande1n5; 12-11-2008 at 12:01 AM..
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
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Another real problem was the VW dealer network, since I know of three of the dealerships that were qualified to sell the Phaeton and they all have terrible reputations for customer service after the sale. Audi, in contrast, seems to have a much better dealership experience, since they are not used to arguing issues with a Jetta one minute and then stepping up to a Phaeton in the next. Had they had a concierge to handle the Phaeton, that would have gone a long way to woo the potential customer base to the big VW. It was a beautiful car to drive and experience, but that said, it was too big a risk for VW in North America where the perception is on VW as a budget vehicle.

The Hyundai Genesis, that's another experiment. The Azera already suffers from a value that drops through the floor after the first year, in comparison to its competition that is much more established, so what's to become of the Genesis within that year. It's definitely not in the same league as a Mercedes or BMW buyer, more along the lines of someone looking for an alternative to a Chrysler 300 or an Avalon. It's ambitious, yes, but so many Hyundais are sold on the basis of low price that I don't see how they can bridge that gap into a true luxury car in the same showroom. Toyota did not do that, as they set up Lexus; similarly, Honda had Acura and Nissan set up the Infiniti division. These gave credence to the brand identities, separating them from the parent in perception and dealership experience.

Had VW channeled the production values from the Phaeton into the A8 at the outset, it would have been a win-win for VW in recapturing market share from Mercedes, since if it truly were the A8 in another guise, it would have been phenomenal. As a classic, they are interesting, but I just don't trust the VW dealership network.
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Old 12-13-2008, 01:29 PM
 
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Thanks for the information folks. Did a little research and found some interesting things. They have one model that came with a V12 engine. Looks like you can find a 2004-2005 model for less than 30k. I would consider one if it was not for the repair cost issues. It appears to be a great car.
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:32 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,688 posts, read 29,063,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grainraiser View Post
Thanks for the information folks. Did a little research and found some interesting things. They have one model that came with a V12 engine. Looks like you can find a 2004-2005 model for less than 30k. I would consider one if it was not for the repair cost issues. It appears to be a great car.
It's a W12, and they're very rare in North America. Four banks of three cylinders each.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:11 AM
 
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As rare as these cars are, I just saw one today - they're big, beautiful, but I'd get the A8 I think.
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