If the Big 3 Receive a Bailout, Do You Really Believe They Will Succeed? (sedans, 1979)
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How can the engineering be different when a Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix are the same car, assembled on the same line by the same worker doing the same job on the GM and Toyota
I've visited the NUMMI plant twice with school groups and it is quite eye opening for some when they see the Vibe and Matrix being built together on the same assembly line.
The engineering is identical... only the marketing is different.
Thanks for the warning. I'll be sure to really check out the stats on any Toyota Matrix I may decide to buy.
I don't think they will succeed in the long run with the bailout. More and more of a generation that grew up with the big3 are dying off. Example= my grandparents who died in thier late 80's back in 2004. The wheels could have fell off a GM in one month, the GM could have been $5,000 more expensive, it would not have mattered, they were going to buy American no matter what. There are thousands of folks just like them who had thier first date in "that good ole Buick", back in the day and once most of those folks are gone so too does the Big3. Of the 3, Ford has about the best chance, but I believe the only chance for all of them is to completely revamp,change the names and attempt to be more attractive to the younger market.
It's not the workmanship but the engineering that's different. If a Chevy or Ford were bolted together by Toyota autoworkers in Japan they still would have the same poor quality. Likewise American built Toyotas have good quality.
That's not always true, actually. Ford used to have a lot of transmission troubles with the Taurus's transmission. One year they outsourced the unit to a Japanese company. Using the same design, the Japanese units didn't have nearly the troubles as the former American-built one did. The Japanese company paid strict attention to tolerances and build quality.
Another example was the 2nd generation VW Jetta. The Jetta was built at the Pueblo plant and typically had iffy quality. The 16V Jetta GLI models came from Germany, though, and side by side you could always tell the difference. More attention was paid to QC in Wolfsburg. Same design though
I don't think they will succeed in the long run with the bailout. More and more of a generation that grew up with the big3 are dying off. Example= my grandparents who died in thier late 80's back in 2004. The wheels could have fell off a GM in one month, the GM could have been $5,000 more expensive, it would not have mattered, they were going to buy American no matter what. There are thousands of folks just like them who had thier first date in "that good ole Buick", back in the day and once most of those folks are gone so too does the Big3. Of the 3, Ford has about the best chance, but I believe the only chance for all of them is to completely revamp,change the names and attempt to be more attractive to the younger market.
I doubt their viability as well. At the same time, however, I've actually noticed quite a few of the younger folks that really like American cars. Maybe not enough of them, or maybe not for the long run, but for now at least, many younger guys have an interest in them, and we'll have to see what happens once they get enough money as a group to start making things like vehicle purchases (if the companies last that long, which again, I'm not entirely sure of). Many of these are kids that have developed a fondness for older muscle cars that fosters a "buy American" attitude in their new car purchases too. If everything old becomes new again, we might see a resurgence of popularity because "aww, Toyota's what my old man drove" just like a lot of boomers saw Cadillac as an old person's car.
GM because it got too used to making money on the vastly overpriced and bloated up-market SUVs and by relying on GMAC for money. If they have to depend on the middle and bottom market cars, they aren't going to make it. Plus there is no real innovation there, other than the Volt which is - as fond as I am of the concept of electric cars - more of a marketing ploy than a real attempt to build a marketable, affordable car, much like the EV-1.
Chrysler has the viable Jeep line, which they are trying to ruin by making them look like boxy baby Hummers. Plus they are run by Cerebus, who do not have a good track record of being committed to getting companies back on track quite so much as sucking every dime out of them. Look for the Jeep brand to be sold off.
Ford has a chance, with a better cross-section of cars but less of the mish-mash of brands that GM has. Plus, they aren't hurting as badly at the moment.
I absolutely agree with this, and so does my DH, who is in the process of losing his job inside the local GM plant (he works for DuPont Automotive paint). He's been watching the UAW workers sleep on the job; whine about how they are asked to do anything "not in my job description; flip out if someone asks them to pay $5 a month toward their own health care; scream their entitlement crap for almost 20 yrs. The attitude is poisonous and pervasive.
That describes a lot of union plants, not just in the automotive industry. It ruins good employees when they have to sit back and watch it everyday. Eventually you get tired of caring so you start slacking just like everyone else.
That's not always true, actually. Ford used to have a lot of transmission troubles with the Taurus's transmission. One year they outsourced the unit to a Japanese company. Using the same design, the Japanese units didn't have nearly the troubles as the former American-built one did. The Japanese company paid strict attention to tolerances and build quality.
Another example was the 2nd generation VW Jetta. The Jetta was built at the Pueblo plant and typically had iffy quality. The 16V Jetta GLI models came from Germany, though, and side by side you could always tell the difference. More attention was paid to QC in Wolfsburg. Same design though
Having driven, and worked on, my own Japanese and American cars and trucks for the past 46 years I won't argue with that. I was just trying to give the hard-pressed American autoworkers a break.
The balance in most well cared for Japanese four cylinder engines with 150,000 miles is nothing less than incredible. And too, my machinist and I both use Mitutoyo micrometers and calipers and I know he knows something about precision.
They would if the sales of Japanese brands were stopped in America.
I have American cars, a Japanese car and a German car. I have owned several of all of them.
Whats sad now is that American car quality seems to be as good as the Japanese makes now, especially since most Japanese models are now made in America. They all seem to be the same generally.
Honda/Toyota quality has seemed to have declined rapidly and I know from experience. I owned many 1980s-early 1990s Hondas and Toyotas and have recently rented several Hondas and Toyotas when going on vacation and the new ones are not up to the quality standards as the 80s-mid 90s were.
The new ones have body drumming, interior "ticks" and pops, quirky shifting transmissions, etc. My 1991 Lexus (Toyota) has nearly 220K and has a perfectly smooth transmission and still completely void of interior rattles... same cannot be said for the 2008 Lexus cars, I have read complaints of transmission issues and interior noises.
Those were the only 2 examples. These were basically rebadged Toyotas.
Like someone mentioned...before, after owning a few American car and having to deal with issues....I went with Japanese and European makes and have not looked back...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner
I have to disagree... the workmanship is identical.
The NUMMI plant in Fremont CA builds both GM and Toyota vehicles on the same line, simultaneously.
The same workers build the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix. They also built the Prizm and Corolla.
The Toyota branded NUMMI products are also slightly higher priced.
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