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Old 01-20-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,166,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Bit OT but I think the Subarus with head gasket issues are 6-cylinders? Ours is the 2.2 L 4-banger, which is less powerful but I think is more reliable than the early 6-cylinder boxers.

FWIW ours has 245K miles, and while we are not the original owners and it may have even received a rebuilt engine at some point, so far no real problems, just replacing half-shafts and that sort of thing.

I think to get into the cars with the 2.2 you are looking at early 90s so they are more than 10 years old, but, remember cars can't count so won't necessarily be more troublesome than a newer model.
No, it was mostly the 2.5L 4-cylinders that were affected, though it affected some of the 2.2's as well. The 2.2L was used in some models (namely the base Impreza) up through the 2001 model year.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:40 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,715 posts, read 11,906,525 times
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Yes Subaru had head gasket problems, just like Toyota had engine sludge problems and Honda had transmission problems.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,064,697 times
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OK, which 2.2s are affected? (wondering about my own Legacy).

IIRC the 2.2 as installed in the Legacy anyway is a "non-interferance" engine, will spin free if the cam belt breaks (the driver is now definitely on foot, but the only complication to the repair is the towing) while most if not all 6-cylinder Subes are interferance - right?
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,166,939 times
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For the 2.2s, the head gasket problems affect MYs 1999 through 2001. However, the 2.2s were only affected by the cylinder head redesign, and the failure rate isn't as high as for the 2.5s with the faulty head gasket material.

All Subaru 4-cylinders from 1997 through the present are interference engines. The 6-cylinders are interference from MY 2001 to present, but they use a chain so it's not much of an issue.
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Southeast
625 posts, read 4,570,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipZap View Post
I previously owned an E39 (BMW 540iA)... and it sure was a great car. BMW is my personal favourite brand and the E39 one of the nicest designs they made.

But it was not *cheap* to maintain, and the purchase price would definitely exceed the one of ...say... an Acura RL.
I said the 528i...specifically didn't say the 540 because it is a V8 and the maintenance costs are higher than the 6 cyl 528i...and when I was car shopping, the 528is cost less than Acura RLs (in the US at least).
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,064,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
For the 2.2s, the head gasket problems affect MYs 1999 through 2001. However, the 2.2s were only affected by the cylinder head redesign, and the failure rate isn't as high as for the 2.5s with the faulty head gasket material.

All Subaru 4-cylinders from 1997 through the present are interference engines. The 6-cylinders are interference from MY 2001 to present, but they use a chain so it's not much of an issue.
Ours is a 1992. "Missed it by that much" - Maxwell Smart.

IIRC a colleague has a 96 Legacy Boxer-6, which has a belt and is interference. Maybe we should start our own "This Old Subaru" thread..
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,166,939 times
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The 6-cylinder was not offered in the Legacy until MY2000, and the engine used in the Legacy has had a chain since its inception.
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,064,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
The 6-cylinder was not offered in the Legacy until MY2000, and the engine used in the Legacy has had a chain since its inception.
OK, my bad, the colleagues car is a 96 Legacy with a 2.5 4-cylinder boxer.

This engine is IIRC interference, and has 2 belts (belt layout similar to 2.2).
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,064,697 times
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Subaru EJ engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Roll down to EJ22 "Enhancements and Improvements"

"The skirt of the piston has been reshaped and the overall weight has been reduced by approximately 100 grams. Compression ratio has been increased to 9.7 to 1 by reshaping the crown of the piston. This eliminates the clearance that was available between the piston at TDC and the fully opened valve." (my bold)

The Brits have an excellent expression for this sort of thing - "Too clever by half".

But hopefully by the time you break a cam belt, the vaunted 3% (3%!) improvement in fuel economy will have saved you enough to buy at least the parts to fix...

Although, as you noted, the head gaskets will likely fail before then, prompting you to get in there and put in new belts with the new head gaskets..

Thanks, Drover, for motivating me to read up on my old Subes.

Getting back to task at hand, I would say a Legacy *before* 1997 with the 2.2 would be a worthy contender.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,166,939 times
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It may be "too clever by half" but it's becoming the reality more and more these days as automakers seek higher and higher compression ratios for increased power and better fuel economy, and improvements in fuel delivery are making those higher compression ratios possible. And now with direct injection gasoline engines, fuel misting has become so fine that even turbocharged engines are starting to see compression ratios in the 10:1 range. That's one reason you're starting to see more and more manufacturers move to turbochargers, including GM, Ford and BMW -- now that turbocharged engines can have compression ratios almost as high as normally aspirated engines, there is almost no loss in fuel economy that used to occur with the drop in compression ratios. And I guess the point of this big long ramble is that it's basically impossible to generate today's compression ratios and meet today's emissions standards without an interference design.

And as far as I know, the Suby 4-cylinders run both sets of camshafts on a single belt, not two.
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