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VW's are absolute pieces of crap (yes I own one) and the cost point of a BMW or Mercedes is waaay outside what I can spend (or want to spend) on a car.
Retail value of a 2000 GLS TDI w/ 85k is $10600 according to Kelly Blue Book. This car is rated at 48 mpg highway.
Retail value of a 2000 GLS "gasser" is $6900. This car is rated at 31 mpg highway.
Driving 12,000 miles per year, it would take over 18 YEARS to spend the difference ($3700) in gas. Driving 24,000 miles per year it would take over 9 YEARS. In other words, your break even point is a car that is between 18 and 27 YEARS old, and that completely ignores the value of the $3700 earning interest instead of buying a car.
If you factor that in, even at a rate of only 3%, you're now talking a pay back of >41 YEARS break even @ 12000 miles per year and 12 YEARS at 24000 miles per year.
And it's worse for the newer cars, I ran the numbers on the Fiesta and it was a much longer break even point.
So yes, it costs significantly more to operate a diesel when you factor in direct and indirect operating costs.
Alrighty then, I guess that proves it out. I still won't drive a gasser though.
Not until diesel fuel prices are the same or below will Americans start to accept diesels. I know they may be more economical MPG wise, but Americans don't like to do math.
I asked a co-worker the other day what he thought of diesel cars (specifically the 09 Jetta TDI) and he replied I thought diesels don't start in the Winter
The reason people don't like diesel, they are clueless.
Big diesel Dodge Ram 4x4 pick-up getting 19 over all, and 28 on the interstate at 70 MPH. Gas trucks won't come near this, and can't tow near the weight. Diesel Jetta, getting high 50's to 60 MPG.
It is not how much per gallon, but how much per mile, and diesels kick butt. There is more energy in a gallon of diesel than there is in a gallon of 89 octane gas, and the diesels use that.
Location: Still in Portland, Oregon, for some reason
890 posts, read 3,700,888 times
Reputation: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup
Here's why they don't make sense.
So yes, it costs significantly more to operate a diesel when you factor in direct and indirect operating costs.
I have to disagree...especially when fuel prices were higher. Let's take a stroll down memory lane to May of last year when prices were higher. This is all hypothetical; just enjoy.
2009 Audi Q7 4.2 Gasoline - 15 mpg mixed (13 city, 17 highway)
2010 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI - 25 mpg mixed (21 city, 29 highway)
Fuel capacity for both is 26.4 US gallons. Example Premium Fuel Cost: $3.699 Example Diesel Fuel Cost: $4.299
Cost to Fill (calculated with 3 gallons remaining in tank):
4.2 liter V8 - $85.55
3.0 TDI V6 - $100.59
Range to Empty (using MPG figures above; driving from a full tank to 3 gallons remaining):
4.2 liter V8 - 351 miles
3.0 TDI V6 - 585 miles
Cost per Mile (fuel only - using above statistics):
4.2 liter V8 - 24 cents
3.0 liter TDI - 17 cents
Total Fuel Cost over 15,000 miles (average one year)
4.2 liter V8 - $3,700
3.0 liter TDI - $2,580
Annual Fuel Savings: $1,120
Assuming you paid an extra $4,000 for the TDI, you would recover your extra expense within 3 1/2 years. And if you spend a lot of time on the highway, that payoff would come even sooner.
Last edited by rosecitywanderer; 03-15-2009 at 06:13 PM..
Assuming you paid an extra $4,000 for the TDI, you would recover your extra expense within 3 1/2 years.
And you will have an engine that will go 100,000 - 250,000 further if you keep the vehicle, or will increase the value of the vehicle if you are one of these people that must upgrade periodically.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Reputation: 46182
For most Americans, diesels aren't gonna fly. That's fine, more for me.
Most folks just don't drive enough to justify diesel (hopefully USA will quit driving altogether and ride the new HS trains)
I'll hang onto my 96 & 97 TDI Passats (have 3 of those). I kinda like the 1000+ miles per tank and they are plenty fast (I can get 50 mpg @80mph w/ AC). I only have 300k on one of them, less than 200k on others, so I will have them for quite awhile. I've seen a few with 500k+. I do the timing belt every 80k for $12 + a tensioner ($30) and water pump ($17) every other time (160k).
Bio-D doesn't smell too bad, but I was weaned on the smoke stack of a tractor for 16 hrs / day, so I need a good snort of unburnt diesel to get going in the AM.... Just like running the silage wagon at 5AM...
I have ~ 20 VW Rabbit diesels too, I get most for under $100, some for free. (Check your neighbor's brier patch). They get 45-50mpg and saves me adding mileage on my Passats.
Seems you leave those Rabbits parked beside each other, and they just keep breed'n. Good thing they are 'orthogonal' they stack pretty well, and you can stand them on end too. It is handy I can plunk my engines in any water cooled VW from '75 > early '99. Same block castings and mounts (Vanagon, Fox, Quantum, Rabbit, Jetta, Golf, Dasher, Scirocco, 'Caddy' Pickup, Passat, Corrado, Cabriolet). I keep plenty of spares around, but haven't needed them
Add in the fact that diesel is back to being cheaper than gas, and diesels keep looking better every day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosecitywanderer
I have to disagree...especially when fuel prices were higher. Let's take a stroll down memory lane to May of last year when prices were higher. This is all hypothetical; just enjoy.
2009 Audi Q7 4.2 Gasoline - 15 mpg mixed (13 city, 17 highway)
2010 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI - 25 mpg mixed (21 city, 29 highway)
Fuel capacity for both is 26.4 US gallons. Example Premium Fuel Cost: $3.699 Example Diesel Fuel Cost: $4.299
Cost to Fill (calculated with 3 gallons remaining in tank):
4.2 liter V8 - $85.55
3.0 TDI V6 - $100.59
Range to Empty (using MPG figures above; driving from a full tank to 3 gallons remaining):
4.2 liter V8 - 351 miles
3.0 TDI V6 - 585 miles
Cost per Mile (fuel only - using above statistics):
4.2 liter V8 - 24 cents
3.0 liter TDI - 17 cents
Total Fuel Cost over 15,000 miles (average one year)
4.2 liter V8 - $3,700
3.0 liter TDI - $2,580
Annual Fuel Savings: $1,120
Assuming you paid an extra $4,000 for the TDI, you would recover your extra expense within 3 1/2 years. And if you spend a lot of time on the highway, that payoff would come even sooner.
Location: Still in Portland, Oregon, for some reason
890 posts, read 3,700,888 times
Reputation: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl
Great post Rose.
Add in the fact that diesel is back to being cheaper than gas, and diesels keep looking better every day.
Thanks...I just now realized that payoff of 3.5 years is even shorter than the payoff period of most (if not all) hybrids. The Chevy Tahoe Hybrid is an astronomical 26 years to bounce back!!! How about them apples?
The last time I checked, there is a 3 cent difference between the price of gas and diesel. I'm not sure how this price thing works. The difference earlier was somewhat more pronounced, with diesel being more expensive. I hope the price difference remains stable.
I'm sure current perceptions of diesel, mostly of people who remember the smell years ago, are way off base.
There were some US regulations requiring diesel to be cleaner. That hurdle has been cleared. If that was the main reason for Ford not building cars for this country, they can do it, now.
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, I get most for under $100, some for free. (Check your neighbor's brier patch). They get 45-50mpg and saves me adding mileage on my Passats.
