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Now if you do the math that highest/fastest charge will consume 16800 watts of electricity per hour which is 16.8 kilowatts/hour which means you will use 67.2 kilowatts of electricity to charge the vehicle enough to go 300 miles. Splitting the difference between the hype and the manual figure 250 miles between charges.
Whoa! Don't confuse kilowatts (which is a measure of power; 1 kilowatt = 1.34 horsepower) with kilowatt-hours (which is a measure of energy; 1 kilowatt-hour = 3,412 BTU) Here, I'll fix it for you:
“Now if you do the math, the highest/fastest charge will consume 240 x 70 x 4 or 67.2 kilowatt-hours, which means you will use 67.2 kilowatt-hours of electricity to charge the vehicle enough to go 300, or more realistically, 250 miles.
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Originally Posted by Bydand
Average electrical charge (not including delivery charges) in the US is $0.1186 per kilowatt which is $7.97 per charge.
You mean $0.1186 per kilowatt-hour, not kilowatt.
Not including delivery charges? What is it about the word retail you don't understand?
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Originally Posted by Bydand
At the average regular unleaded price of $2.637 a gallon ...
That is an unsustainable, recession era low price. From your link, the average gasoline price in August 2008 was $3.68 per gallon. That is more likely to be the neighborhood of prices in the immediate future.
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Originally Posted by Bydand
it is going to take a LONG time to see any payback on the premium for driving the vehicle.
Assuming a gasoline engine gets 25 mpg and gas at $3.80/gal, a 250 mile trip will cost $38 of gasoline, compared to $8 of electricity.
It is difficult to predict the comparative costs of energy in the future, but my guess is that it would take 10-12 years to recoup the premium for driving an electric vehicle. Of course, one would expect the electric vehicle premium to diminish with time.
I know the difference very well, it is what I do for a living. Most other people don't know what you are talking about when you say kilowatt-hour. If you look my figures ARE using kilowat-hours as the measurment, I just kept it simple for the average person to follow along.
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Not including delivery charges? What is it about the word retail you don't understand?
I understand retail very well thank you for asking. What part of having separate retail prices for delivery AND electrical usage don't you understand. Some parts of the Country and some electrical providers price each separately.
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That is an unsustainable, recession era low price. From your link, the average gasoline price in August 2008 was $3.68 per gallon. That is more likely to be the neighborhood of prices in the immediate future.
I agree with you on this point, but was using figures that are the here and now, to keep others from crying that we don't know how high gas prices will go and the figures are just a wild guess with no backing.
Quote:
Assuming a gasoline engine gets 25 mpg and gas at $3.80/gal, a 250 mile trip will cost $38 of gasoline, compared to $8 of electricity.
It is difficult to predict the comparative costs of energy in the future, but my guess is that it would take 10-12 years to recoup the premium for driving an electric vehicle. Of course, one would expect the electric vehicle premium to diminish with time.
Right, but that is assuming the electric rates stay the same as they are right now and that the gas will shoot back up very soon. Both of which we have no real idea about and both of which would only be a wild guess, which is what I was trying to stay away from. So even worse case on gas and best case on electric, the pay-back on the premium is longer than most people keep vehicles so it is a moot point.
I know the difference very well [between kilowatts and kilowatt-hours], it is what I do for a living. Most other people don't know what you are talking about when you say kilowatt-hour. I just kept it simple for the average person to follow along.
That's a bit condescending, don't you think? What's next? Baby talk?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand
Right, but that is assuming the electric rates stay the same as they are right now and that the gas will shoot back up very soon. Both of which we have no real idea about and both of which would only be a wild guess, ...
So what is your point of doing all that math to predict the payback time of an electric car when you admit that the future costs of electricity and gasoline are only a wild guess. Seems like a waste of time to me.
That's a bit condescending, don't you think? What's next? Baby talk?
If that is what you need. I just didn't feel I had to prove how smart I was by 100% proper terminology when the figures were correct, to the point, and easy to understand. Only an Engineer would take a simple calculation and muck it up by trying to make it sound more technical than it really is by trotting out terminology that isn't needed.
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So what is your point of doing all that math to predict the payback time of an electric car when you admit that the future costs of electricity and gasoline are only a wild guess. Seems like a waste of time to me.
Because the prices of the here and now are what we have that are actual figures, that are real world, not a flight of fancy. Who is to say that if the electric car makes it big the price of gas won't plummet and the cost of electric will skyrocket? After all if there is a big increase in Electrical demand there HAS to be more power plants built to supply the demand, those are not cheap. I figure in the real world, not one of fantasy and fiction.
just my 2 cents but as much as i love cars, if i had 50k cash i wouldnt blow it all on a new car that will just go down in value. if you are able to get out and around to the dealers, that might be the best way to see whats being offered from american car companies. a car can look good in print and still not ride well or be uncomfortable. id think you could find a nice car that will serve your needs for much less. then maybe take a nice cruise or do something fun and memorable with the rest. good luck.
not to get in the middle here, but zea i thought your comment "What is it about the word retail you don't understand?" was kind of sarcastic sounding. and really from her last post, she is just wanting opinions about higher dollar american cars she may consider purchasing. agree to disagree and let it go, you are both smart pple. besides i think you already talked her out of the electric car, -smile-. maybe something in a hybred would suit her better.
I'm not an electrical engineer but it doesn’t make much sense to use an improper term of measurement for the sake of simplicity. That’s like me intentionally talking in Ebonics and limiting my vocabulary as to not sound too intelligent to the people around me. A bit backwards don’t you think? I’m not saying we should study a dictionary everyday to intentionally confuse people but certainly when it comes to measurement there is a right and wrong answer.
I'm not retirement age yet, but am getting "up there" ... I'm 48.
You guys are all very smart and I thank you for taking the time to help me with this.
With regard to electric cars ... wouldn't you be able to purchase a solar powered generator and then convert it (I think it's AC to DC or DC to AC -- I'm not sure?) and then charge the electric car with that?
The cost of electricity would then be ZERO.
I'm buying some land and having a self-sustaining home built on the property. Everything will be solar powered and there'll be a water filtration system that converts rain water into drinking water. I'm just trying to do my part to help the Earth in whatever ways I can.
I'm not retirement age yet, but am getting "up there" ... I'm 48.
You guys are all very smart and I thank you for taking the time to help me with this.
With regard to electric cars ... wouldn't you be able to purchase a solar powered generator and then convert it (I think it's AC to DC or DC to AC -- I'm not sure?) and then charge the electric car with that?
The cost of electricity would then be ZERO.
I'm buying some land and having a self-sustaining home built on the property. Everything will be solar powered and there'll be a water filtration system that converts rain water into drinking water. I'm just trying to do my part to help the Earth in whatever ways I can.
The solar-powered car charger is feasible, but probably not practical. It'd take a tremendous amount of power to charge the electric car - and that'd probably be more than a solar generator would put out.
Then you always have cloudy days to contend with...
My personal opinion is that electric cars simply are not a viable option right now. I wish they were, and some day they hopefully will be. But at this point in time, they just seem to be too costly for what they deliver.
By the way, 1980 was a great year to graduate wasn't it!
I graduated in 1979. My younger sister graduated in 1980. Yeah, my graduation was great. I graduated from Rancho High School in LV and our graduating class had over 2500 students. They held the ceremony at the Aladdin Theater for the Performing Arts. It was really a very special night for me.
OK, I'll give up on the idea of an electric car for now anyway. I'm not keen on the hybrids because I won't buy something that uses a fuel that competes with the food source. Remember ethanol? Following that, corn became scarce and prices skyrocketed due to huge demand and low supply.
There's supposed to be some kind of algae powered car in the works too. It sounds promising.
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Seems like a waste of time to me.
