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Small trucks don't fare well against a full size either.
The NHTSA test ratings are one way to look at how vehicles do when hitting an immovable object at 35mph. That tells you something about how well they would do in the real world if you crash into a bridge abutment, but doesn't tell you anything about what happens when a 7,000 truck or SUV hits a 1,600 Smart car.
That 7000 lb truck also takes 30-50 more feet to stop from highway speeds, is less maneuverable, and more likely to roll over in an evasive move.
"Standard Pickups" are the vehicle for 13.4% of all fatalities.
"Light Trucks" (which includes most SUVs) have a significantly higher fatality rate than passenger cars:
cars: 14.73 per 100,000 vehicles, 1.3 per 1M miles traveled
light trucks: 19.01 per 100,000 vehicles; 1.67 per 1M miles traveled
So drivers of light trucks are 28% more likely to be killed in a crash.
This data comes from the NHTSA's fatality database called FARS.
The crash test numbers for trucks don't really look that much better, some actually worse. This chart is from Consumer Reports, discussing the NHTSA ratings for trucks. Full link below. Note that the Kia Soul, Mazda 3, and Hyundai Sonata are included for comparison. The Smart doesn't seem to fare too badly. I'm not a huge fan, but I do want to give credit where it's due.
Basically, it all comes down to how the tests are conducted. The frontal impact tests are done against a flexible barrier, so only the vehicles own size/weight and force are involved. In the side impact tests, they use something that weighs the same as the vehicle it is hitting. So, what this means is the test assumes that vehicles only hit other vehicles of the same size and weight.
So, trucks are tested as if they are being hit by other trucks, Smarts are tested like they are being hit by other Smarts. The article and picture I posted in the other thread is from the IIHS where they tested what happens when a mini/micro car like a Fit, Smart or Yaris hits a midsize sedan from the same manufacturer in an offset frontal crash. The result isn't pretty for the small car, it's basic physics.
Mercedes C class versus Smart Fortwo: After striking the front of the C class, the Smart went airborne and turned around 450 degrees. This contributed to excessive movement of the dummy during rebound — a dramatic indication of the Smart's poor performance but not the only one. There was extensive intrusion into the space around the dummy from head to feet. The instrument panel moved up and toward the dummy. The steering wheel was displaced upward. Multiple measures of injury likelihood, including those on the dummy's head, were poor, as were measures on both legs.
"The Smart is the smallest car we tested, so it's not surprising that its performance looked worse than the Fit's. Still both fall into the poor category, and it's hard to distinguish between poor and poorer," Lund says. "In both the Smart and Fit, occupants would be subject to high injury risk in crashes with heavier cars." In contrast, the C class held up well, with little to no intrusion into the occupant compartment. Nearly all measures of injury likelihood were in the good range.
NJGOAT, I have posted on the other thread as well. In fact, I was surprised there were two threads on basically the same thing.
Regarding the test procedures, the amount of force is what it is, and it is calculable regardless of whether it hits a barrier or another vehicle. In fact, it's probably more accurately figured when it hits a known object, like an engineered barrier. There are many more variables in the IIHS tests, many of which are not controlled. The NHTSA tests control more of the variables, so the results can more easily be extrapolated. Are you safer in a truck than a Smart car? Possibly, but I don't think the differences are as stark as some would like to believe.
NJGOAT, I have posted on the other thread as well. In fact, I was surprised there were two threads on basically the same thing.
Regarding the test procedures, the amount of force is what it is, and it is calculable regardless of whether it hits a barrier or another vehicle. In fact, it's probably more accurately figured when it hits a known object, like an engineered barrier. There are many more variables in the IIHS tests, many of which are not controlled. The NHTSA tests control more of the variables, so the results can more easily be extrapolated. Are you safer in a truck than a Smart car? Possibly, but I don't think the differences are as stark as some would like to believe.
I don't understand what you mean by lack of controls in the IIHS tests. In the test I posted, yes, there are less controls since they are crashing two cars together, but that was only done to illustrate what happens when cars of different sizes hit. Also, their statistical data included in the article about overall safety of small cars has some holes in it we could argue. However, their standard test procedures are just as controlled as NHTSA, but they measure different things. In fact, the IIHS rates the Smart pretty good in its regular testing.
On side impacts...
IIHS, taller barrier that simulates SUV height vehicle. The dummy is an average height female. Head injuries are measured as well as all other body parts and impact the rating.
NHTSA, shorter barrier that simulates a car. The dummy is an average height male. Head injuries are measured, but not included into the star rating, just torso injuries.
On frontal impacts...
IIHS uses an offset crash where only a portion of the front end makes contact with the barrier, which is the most typical crash scenario.
NHTSA uses a full on frontal impact as if you ran into the rear end of another car or a brick wall dead on.
So, those are differences in the testing and as I said earlier the biggest issue (which was the whole point of the IIHS test I posted) was that vehicles are only tested against themselves essentially (by both NHTSA and the IIHS). When they test a Smart in the regular battery of tests, it runs into a flexible barrier with only its own weight and velocity involved. When they do the side impact testing the barrier is set to equal the test subjects weight (so, it is basically a Smart hitting a Smart or an Accord hitting an Accord, etc.).
The test I posted here and in the other thread was designed to address what happens when two vehicles of different size hit each other. The answer, the larger car wins.
How can something that does this:
be bad at carrying groceries?
First, I want to see how low that Smart is sitting on its suspension. I'm guessing just shy of bottoming out the shocks. A small-block Chevy block is not all that big but weighs somewhere around 300 pounds if it's a cast iron unit.
Second, that small block is about the volume of two bags of groceries (real paper bags, not plastic ones.) The back of the Smart thus looks like it can haul maybe four bags of groceries and a gallon of milk. That's not very much, and driving twice the miles (two trips) to get the same amount of groceries sure destroys the "I pay less in fuel costs" argument for the Smart.
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,122,972 times
Reputation: 5025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
I saw one of those cars while I was out biking.
So for those who have not seen one, here is a photo:
.............How would you like to be driving along one of our western Montana Highways and have a 1000 pound Moose come out of the brush and up on to the roadway on a blind curve...in the dark...and you're going 65 to 70 mph and "nail that sucker" dead center.........with a Smart Car.
I've seen what that can do to a 3/4 ton Ford P.U........................IMHO the chances of surviving a "Smart vs Moose" would be virtually "zero". Their long legs put their "body-mass" exactly the height of the windshield on the "Smart"......................"be ready to meet your maker".
.............How would you like to be driving along one of our western Montana Highways and have a 1000 pound Moose come out of the brush and up on to the roadway on a blind curve...in the dark...and you're going 65 to 70 mph and "nail that sucker" dead center.........with a Smart Car.
I've seen what that can do to a 3/4 ton Ford P.U........................IMHO the chances of surviving a "Smart vs Moose" would be virtually "zero". Their long legs put their "body-mass" exactly the height of the windshield on the "Smart"......................"be ready to meet your maker".
Who the hell in Montana would buy a Smart anyway? Is there even one single Smart dealer anywhere in Montana?
Hmmm ... If you took that pic *on the hiway*, where do they have Hiways like that ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazyn
He said LIKE this, not "I saw this"
Thank you, kazyn. I was trying to figure out how my post implied that the rig pictured was the exact one I saw and that I took the pic, because neither is true.
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,122,972 times
Reputation: 5025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover
Who the hell in Montana would buy a Smart anyway? Is there even one single Smart dealer anywhere in Montana?
......Hey Drover...........
Closest dealer is in Seattle,.......however, there are several SMART CARS in this area (the Bitterroot Valley). Just in the town of Hamilton (pop about 4100) there are 4 or 5 that one of my friends (a local cop) says he sees quite regularly.
Similiar situation with the ACURA. Closest dealer is in Spokane, WA., and yet there are many, many Acura vehicles in this area.......hell, even I had one for 4 years... their MDX SUV is a great winter car for our area.
Speaking of cars............ I bought my first car (a used 1940 Mercury) from G L Miller Motors in Waukegan in 1947. Obviously, I don't have it now,.....but I do have something that you might like.
For my 75th birthday (almost 5 years ago) I came across a vehicle that I had always admired. And (due to a dramatic change in life style) I had just sold my P.U., my slide-in camper and my late wife's car, so I took that cash and bought what is sittin' in my garage right now:..........a 1996 Jag XJS 2+2 Convertible...Metallic Jade Green w/ Ivory Leather...ALWAYS garaged.....DOH Cam straight Six and is in MINT condition.
Bought it from the original owner; have ALL the service records and it runs and drives like a dream. As you know (being a "Gear-Head"), that was the last year that Jaguar was able to produce that model without FORD "stickin' their fingers in the pie". As of 1997 FORD made many disastorus design, engine and engineering changes, that Jaguar never recovered from.
Now the "kicker".........44,446 miles on it when I bought it..........mileage now: 47114!!!!!!! Yeah, it's my Sunday "go-to-Church-car" and I use it for "draggin' Main Street on Saturday--"Trollin' For Chicks"----only in good weather of course.___________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _
Elk Grove Village, huh?............................
As a kid growin' up about 4 miles from "Elk Grove" back in the 1940's.........I probably killed over 500 Pheasants & Rabbits---------they were a very frequent and important part of our "family groceries" back then. Shotgun shells were hard to come by due to WWII, so every shot really had to count.
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