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Youre right, Ive never driven one, I made that clear with one of my posts above.
I disagree. A racetrack, free of debris, potholes, dipping, imperfect pavement, etc, is where a car's true potential is brought out. A Neon is pretty good in autocross, where low-geared, slow corners are common, but put it out at Gingerman and its back of the pack. Any person can drive any car through an autocross course and claim how great their car is, but its a different story when youre at redline in 4th gear with the tires on teh edge of adhesion on a real racetrack. THOSE are the limits where most cars lose it, and the real track performers shine. Cars like the Type-R and Mustang Cobra R are perfect examples. Sure you can drive em on the street. Sure you can autocross em. But theyre not in their element. Their element is on the racetrack, not a pitted airport parking lot with little cute orange cones all over the place. And for the record I never said the JCW Mini isnt a stout performer, but I think the Type-R is all around a more precisely-honed FWD car than the Mini.
though i'm not really a big fan of them, I knew someone with a new GTI with only a few mods, and did quite well at various track events he participated in. Both course events, autocross, etc. Especially where there was some distance to cover, where he could use the power under the hood to his advantage
I think the best handling front-engine, front-wheel drive (FF) is one that has a low amount of power. Think about, an FF's natural characteristic is to understeer when accelerating and adding more power to it increases the amount of understeer to the car. The best suspension setup only alleviates some of the problems and can never completely cure it!
I can attribute this claim from experience. Let's just say I dueled with another FF years ago on a tight, winding road. His car had 200 horsepower while mine had only 120. On the start, he got away, using his power to pull away on the straights. However, when the corners came (primarily low-mid-speed), I quickly caught up to him and eventually passed him on one of the corners. As I kept getting closer to him on each corner, I noticed the heavy amount of understeer he had compared to my FF.
When I see companies marketing more FFs with more power (e.g. Civic Si, Cobalt SS, Sentra SE-R Spec V, etc), I personally cringe, as I know perfectly well that those cars will have a massive amount of understeer compared to FFs with less power.
Last edited by marcusj245; 10-29-2009 at 02:06 AM..
I think the best handling front-engine, front-wheel drive (FF) is one that has a low amount of power. Think about, an FF's natural characteristic is to understeer when accelerating and adding more power to it increases the amount of understeer to the car. The best suspension setup only alleviates some of the problems and can never completely cure it!
I can attribute this claim from experience. Let's just say I dueled with another FF years ago on a tight, winding road. His car had 200 horsepower while mine had only 120. On the start, he got away, using his power to pull away on the straights. However, when the corners came (primarily low-mid-speed), I quickly caught up to him and eventually passed him on one of the corners. As I kept getting closer to him on each corner, I noticed the heavy amount of understeer he had compared to my FF.
When I see companies marketing more FFs with more power (e.g. Civic Si, Cobalt SS, Sentra SE-R Spec V, etc), I personally cringe, as I know perfectly well that those cars will have a massive amount of understeer compared to FFs with less power.
Specifically because the basic premise of your post ("adding more power to it increases the amount of understeer to the car") is flawed. Well no, it only does that once you reach the limits of tire adhesion. And until that happens, more power is just plain going to make the car go faster.
Hell, two of the examples you cited (Civic Si, Cobalt SS) will out-handle just about anything on the market right now save dedicated sports cars. They out-slalom the BMW 335i, the Audi S4, the Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, the Camaro SS, the Lexus IS350, Acura TL, Hyundai Genesis V6 Coupe, etc. Whatever you drove in your little tale above, chances are pretty darn good that both these cars would have eaten you for lunch in the hands of a semi-competent driver.
Hell, two of the examples you cited (Civic Si, Cobalt SS) will out-handle just about anything on the market right now save dedicated sports cars. They out-slalom the BMW 335i, the Audi S4, the Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, the Camaro SS, the Lexus IS350, Acura TL, Hyundai Genesis V6 Coupe, etc. Whatever you drove in your little tale above, chances are pretty darn good that both these cars would have eaten you for lunch in the hands of a semi-competent driver.
Actually, that 200hp car I mentioned about was a Civic Si and the driver does compete in a professional cup race (I should add that car was just an appetizer).
When I see companies marketing more FFs with more power (e.g. Civic Si, Cobalt SS, Sentra SE-R Spec V, etc), I personally cringe, as I know perfectly well that those cars will have a massive amount of understeer compared to FFs with less power.
Actually, that 200hp car I mentioned about was a Civic Si and the driver does compete in a professional cup race (I should add that car was just an appetizer).
Was it a current generation Si (you said "years ago") or one of the last couple of versions? Coupe or sedan? Bone stock or some modifications?
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