911 Turbo vs GT-R vs R8 V10 (2014, Germany, RX7, idle)

[Mr.Cat]

Who won? And yes, this time they have some NUMBERS!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OTUHgTAMMU

[ShelbyGirl1]

I'm still going with the Audi! I absolutely love my R8 and the only thing that would make me give it up is the Audi V10 convert.!

[iTsLiKeAnEgG]

I think the R8 is a beautiful car (with body colored side blade) but the GT-R is just an amazing bargain for what it does. If I was paying for either car I'd just get the GT-R and spend the rest elsewhere.

[TheViking85]

It's a testament to the GT-R that it's being compared to cars up to twice it's price.

[Steve-o]

The 911 and R8 have something that the Nissan never will... pedigree and desireability.

[TheViking85]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

The 911 and R8 have something that the Nissan never will... pedigree and desireability.

What possible pedigree does the R8 have?

And what on earth are you saying? The GT-R has a pedigree going back to 1957. Audis weren't even made until 1965, and this is the first full out sport/supersportscar they've made.

I think the sale numbers, as well as the across the board praise from the motoring journalist community speaks against your statement about desirability.

It's fine that you don't like it, but your statements are about as credible as the lump I leave in the toilet bowl each morning. Just say you don't like it, instead of making up things that make you seem stupider than you are.

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

The 911 and R8 have something that the Nissan never will... pedigree and desireability.

Actually, I worked for Porsche Cars North America (in Reno) back in the late '80s. Their corporate arrogance was stunning back then. There was a team of Porsche engineers arriving, and we got a then-new 300ZX twin turbo in Chrome Yellow (remember?), as well as a then-new RX-7 twin turbo that looked sorta like a smoothed out birdcage Maser (a model of which was on the desk of the Japanese guy who styled it...) for them to drive up to Tahoe on that v. twisty road.

Their response? "Zeez are nothing but technological pretenders to zeh throne!" Rigggghhtttt..

The Nissan was a real charger. it left the 944 way behind, and even led the then-new 944 turbo. The RX-7 sounded like an angry bee, and was so light and responsive, several of the younger, less arrogant Porsche engineeers were really impressed. They took notes and a lot of photos.

Nowadays, the latest turbo Nissan is unabashedly a serious runner, and has what.. a pedigree of at least 25 years of racing wins and on-road performance, oh, BTW, and unrelenting reliability attached to it.

The 12,000 mile service on a Porsche will stop your heart. Brakes, probably a clutch, tires, special lubes and oils ("Ve needt to shim undt balance zah viper-armz for optimum performanze, Mr. Weaver!").

Meantime, the guy saving for the testosteronic phallic-booster a Porsche definitely provides to those who see things that way, was actually able to save money by owning a Nissan Turbo. And also pass pretty much everything on the road in the meantime.

BTW, when I later worked for the Japanese in engineering, I found young engineers over there equal in every way to the creativity and driving abilities to anything I saw in Germany. Now, yes, as opposed to a typical senior Porsche manager, even an account exec, a corporate manager in Japan is afraid behind the wheel of anything faster than a Honda Element, but the Japanese development guys? Stand back!

And the Wankel engine in the Mazda should, more correctly, now be designated a "Mazda rotary", since aside from the basic Wankel principles, they have engineered all the bugs out of the original, to their credit. Idles like a 1950s Austin engine, but wails at "full chat"! Imagine: 250hp from a non-trubo 1300cc engine, meeting all necessary emission specs! Wow!

(BTW, you should see some of the developmental supercharged 3 rotor stuff over there! 2000 ccs, 400 hp, smooth as silk!).

Now, the true shock value comes when you want to have your Audi V-10 serviced or worse: repaired The horror... the horror! You call that good engineering? Me, not so much.

It's easier and easier to just go fast these days. It's the rest of the package that counts.

[hsw]

Agree...lots of bluster over empty brands

Have owned 997TT (and 996TTS and 997S)...underwhelmed by 997TT turbo lag (despite VTG bs), Luddite gearboxes (and no one yet knows how reliable are PDKs), poor chassis stability over bumpy stretches of mtn twisties, effeminate Prius Turbo-like exhaust note...and rather poor reliability for a car with little new, innovative tech (tons of stupid glitches that I don't face on far higher-tech new AMGs which I've found to have bulletproof quality/reliability in my expce)

Am amused by Audi/Lambo/VW's inability to get basics right (much like BMW)....inept brakes (pedal feel/fade resistance) and lack of a smooth, reliable, latest-tech gearbox...and mid-engine cars have dubious crashworthiness and fire risks (fuel tank placement vs hot engine components)

Have never been convinced that any of the Asians (like the Italians or Americans) have any competent safety engineers....so, a non-starter for me...any monkey can develop a fast, nominally cheap car if don't need to engineer class-leading safety, reliability and daily-useability...but won't be cheap if one suffers injuries/disabilities in a crash...

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by TheViking85

What possible pedigree does the R8 have?

And what on earth are you saying? The GT-R has a pedigree going back to 1957. Audis weren't even made until 1965, and this is the first full out sport/supersportscar they've made.


It's fine that you don't like it, but your statements are about as credible as the lump I leave in the toilet bowl each morning. Just say you don't like it, instead of making up things that make you seem stupider than you are.

Gee, arent you a finely-honed piece of work!

I was referring to Audi in general. Their history and racing heritage is something that a GT-R can never touch. And the GT-R youre referring to dating back to the 50's? HA! It wasnt until the introduction of the RB26DETT in the R32 that the Skyline actually became credible. I believe the first Skyline had a whopping, sporty, lustful 55 hp or something like that.

And speaking of statements as credible as the lump of corny crap that I leave in the bowl each morning... you honestly believe Audi wasnt made until 1965? Audi's roots can be traced back to the very early 1900's! Audi was fielding cars in Le Mans, WRC, etc, when Nissan and its wheezy Skyline were pukish fledglings. Go back under your rock and give respect where respect is due.

[MisterNY]

Originally Posted by TheViking85

What possible pedigree does the R8 have?

And what on earth are you saying? The GT-R has a pedigree going back to 1957. Audis weren't even made until 1965, and this is the first full out sport/supersportscar they've made.

I think the sale numbers, as well as the across the board praise from the motoring journalist community speaks against your statement about desirability.

It's fine that you don't like it, but your statements are about as credible as the lump I leave in the toilet bowl each morning. Just say you don't like it, instead of making up things that make you seem stupider than you are.

Great post!!

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Gee, arent you a finely-honed piece of work!

I was referring to Audi in general. Their history and racing heritage is something that a GT-R can never touch. And the GT-R youre referring to dating back to the 50's? HA! It wasnt until the introduction of the RB26DETT in the R32 that the Skyline actually became credible. I believe the first Skyline had a whopping, sporty, lustful 55 hp or something like that.

And speaking of statements as credible as the lump of corny crap that I leave in the bowl each morning... you honestly believe Audi wasnt made until 1965? Audi's roots can be traced back to the very early 1900's! Audi was fielding cars in Le Mans, WRC, etc, when Nissan and its wheezy Skyline were pukish fledglings. Go back under your rock and give respect where respect is due.

It's your seemingly exaggerated arrogance and badge snobbery that makes talking to someone like you a pain. Give cars credit they deserve.
And it always seems to me that those who repeat this nonsense, know little about what they speak. Pedigree this, Euro that....(all rubbish).

What the guys from Japan did was give you fun/exciting, German beaters that were far more reliable at the time. (We're talking late 80s to early 90s in the States). The RX7 Twin Turbo, Supra TT, 300zx tt, Skyline and Mitsubishi GTO (known as the 3000GT VR4 here) gave cars 2-3 their price a run for their money. The new R35 is doing the same. The Japanese are known for that. (You can't refute that )

People who deep down felt duped about paying twice and getting less, hid behind pedigree and badge nonsense.

I'm one to give credit to cars that are worthy of the technology and engineering that are put into them. One of my cars is a 944 Turbo that is modded and raced from time to time (Built motor, Motec Ecu, KKK hybrid turbo, Methanol injection, brakes and suspension to name a few), but love the Japanese cars and see them as superior in build and engineering. Reliabilty and bang for the buck technology with these cars cannot be touched by Germans and Italians. We all know that. Even a Porsche exec said it himself (speaking of why the Japanese build better and more reliable cars. Issue of Top Gear Magazine (UK), June 1999 or 2000 IIRC).

I still had more fun in my Supra Turbo built by Performance Factory in NYC (it gave many exotics in its days a run for their money at Lime Rock and Englishtown). I'm building an IS300 with a (turbo) Supra motor now, that will do the same. Beat most AMGs/Ms and Audi S badged cars with my 3200 lbs beast.(A wolf in sheep's clothing )

So please spare us all the Pedigree nonsense.

I know Audi deserves credit for Rally and DTM racing, (Things I love), and their Quattro and Haldex systems, but I will also say they aren't the best cars to own either (I owned an S4 with MTM bits, before. While it was fast and fun, it was a PITA at times).

Lexus. Infiniti, MB and BMW build better cars on many levels. I just call it what it is. Fair is fair.

Again, let's keep things fair. Pedigree and badge snobbery is for people who feel duped. They got less than what they pay for!!

Nothing against you, just this badge snobbery that holds no merit needs to stop. (If you dislike any car for whatever reason fine, but to hide behind something due to its shortcomings is something else).

I think it's that attitude that gives the Engineers in Japan a greater desire to excel and beat the boys from Europe, and give them a run for their money (in their respective classes, of course)....always.