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Old 01-06-2010, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,813,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiss90 View Post
Why don't American car companys sale there cars in Europe..We have Ford ,but it's tottaly diffrent from American ford...we don't have ...GMC,MERCURY,CADILLAC,LINCOLN...ofcourse you can find some used ,but hard.. etc..you can find all Japan car salons but not u.s. Ps.I want to write a letter to ford company where can I found an email to write them.... I tryed to search but no luck.
...And we whine about not getting European and Asian cars that aren't sold in America. I think it's just human nature that we want things we can't have.

PS- I'll get you a new Mercury if you get me a new Land Rover Defender.
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:53 PM
 
4,500 posts, read 12,343,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Although there is much truth in this post - I would argue that American vehicles are more reliable than European makes. Plenty of independent data exists to show that on average, European vehicles break more frequently and cost more to operate than American brands.

There is a very good reason Fiat, Alfa, Peugeot, Triumph, Opel, Rover, MG, Renault etc disappeared from the US market. That is because in general they were horrible vehicles. They may have been fun to drive, but they did not survive.

In my trips to Europe (France, Switzerland, Germany, UK) I see a limited number of American vehicles. I think the vehicle I have seen most frequently is Jeeps - especially the Grand Cherokee.
Much like some American brands, a lot of the brands you speak of has dramatically increased their reliability over the past 10 years.

Though Peugeot still release some models that are haunted by electrical issues (The French cars Achilles heel) they've also made hugely successful models such as the 206, 307 etc that have proved to be well made and reliable.

Fiats new 500 also has a pretty good track record so far, and has become hugely popular.

Alfa Romeo, well they're supposed to be a little unreliable aren't they, , that said though, with the new low displacement, high powered engines they're putting in the MiTo, they're at the forefront of "emissions engineering", whether it'll prove reliable or not we're still to see.

Triumph, Rover and MG were mostly horrible, we all know that, outside of the UK neither was ever a high selling brand though.

Opels are actually sold on the US market as Pontiacs, well up until recently. Some of the models are good, some not so much, they're a bit of a hit and miss company, but even their worst aren't much worse than an American car in the same class. They might've been sold as a more luxurios vehicle than it is here though.

Renaults have gotten good, full stop. Their fault rates aren't worse than most, they're relatively cheap and relatively well equipped, same with Citröens, they've gotten better.

That said though; A small Peugeot or Citröen is hardly a car a potential buyer of a Cadillac CTS or a Chevrolet Tahoe or Jeep Cherokee or a Dodge Caliber etc., would look at as an close to equal alternative.

A Cadillac would generally be compared against a BMW, Mercedes or Jaguar, all of which, are and always have been higher quality, both when it comes to reliability and build quality/materials used. Same goes with an awful lot of other American cars too, and you also have to remember that many fall into a category of cars that's rarely needed nor wanted over here, they're simply too big. (Not to say some don't buy them, but they're in no way extremely common)

In my experience, the biggest difference, part from the highly inefficient engines (also started to/have changed recently, though few US cars can claim the mpg a European counterpart can, even with same engine volume), is build and material quality. A Dodge Avenger for instance, has a very "cheap plastic" feel when it comes to the interior, and things have been known come off fairly easily. (I actually managed to accidentally remove the cup holder in a GMC Yukon simply by opening it.. and that was the show car! It also had easily visible variation in panel gaps, the hood especially was mounted completely crooked.) Interiors also seem to "wear out" a lot faster, most likely due to material quality.

That said, I'm talking general trends, I'm not saying there's no good American made cars, simply stating some of the reasons there's not that many of them here.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:01 PM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,848,488 times
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I have to wander about the fiat about to be offered because they tried to sell them before here and most found them to be a POSS. But lets face it the american car market is much different than the european market and those diesels do not meet american emisons standards besides.My poerosnal opinion is that diesel just stink up the roadway too much for now.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:09 PM
 
4,500 posts, read 12,343,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I have to wander about the fiat about to be offered because they tried to sell them before here and most found them to be a POSS. But lets face it the american car market is much different than the european market and those diesels do not meet american emisons standards besides.My poerosnal opinion is that diesel just stink up the roadway too much for now.
What exactly are those emission standards? Because they're pretty strict here too.

The BMW 330d that you have available in the US is definately not burning it's diesel any cleaner than it's smaller engined brothers.

In fact, the BMW 318d is one of the most green "friendly" engines on the market, and it gets pretty impressive Mpg figures.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:15 PM
 
122 posts, read 372,660 times
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When we lived in Spain, circa, 1968-72, there was a Chrysler/Dodge dealership in downtown Madrid. The showroom had a couple of full size American cars. A big Chrysler wagon with wood grain trim and a Dogde Monaco along with the Spanish version of Dodge Dart (Those were the "bomb" at the time) and the Spanish/French Simca a little air cooled rear engine version very similar to a Fiat/Seat 600. I don't recall any "American" GM dealerships. Opel was "the" European GM car but it was German. When we were there, the Spaniards were always looking for Americans to be selling their cars before going back to the States. At that time, driving an American car thru Spain and Europe took its toll quickly. For the most part, the roads there, beat the hell out of American cars, the gas was not as high octane and by the end of most tours of duty alot of the "Old" American Iron had served its duty and considered not worth shipping back to the States.
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Old 01-06-2010, 06:35 PM
 
4,500 posts, read 12,343,711 times
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Just looked up some figures on the 318d

It gets 57.4 Mpg on highway, 50 mpg combined and 41.2 Mpg in city.
As far as emissions go, I only found the CO2 emissions and they're 123g/Km (I'm not sure what measurement you'd use instead of grams, but it's 76.4 grams per mile).

It'll do a top speed of 130 Mph, accelerates from 0-62 Mph in 9,6 secs and does 50-75 Mph in 4th gear in 8,4 secs.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:43 PM
 
9,326 posts, read 22,018,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiss90 View Post
Why don't American car companys sale there cars in Europe..We have Ford ,but it's tottaly diffrent from American ford...we don't have ...GMC,MERCURY,CADILLAC,LINCOLN...ofcourse you can find some used ,but hard.. etc..you can find all Japan car salons but not u.s. Ps.I want to write a letter to ford company where can I found an email to write them.... I tryed to search but no luck.
I EASILY DID A search.. dunno why you had trouble. Did you not use google?

Here are a few web sites that show American cars sold in Europe:

Chrysler France (the minivan was a few years back the car to own by Parisian yuppies)
Chrysler - Home
Chrysler Germany:
Chrysler - Home

GM Europe:
General Motors - GM Europe - GM in your Country (http://www.gm.com/europe/gm-europe/ - broken link)
(yes they do market US made cars such as the Caddy CTS in the UK)

I know a memorandum of agreement was signed for the sale of Hummer to a Chinese firm, but I have yet to hear of the Chinese government has reviewed and approved the final sale.

I've seen Buicks, Jeeps and Chrysler minivans in Paris, Neons (gasp), Jeeps and CAddys in the UK, Jeeps in Italy, etc. etc. They are not commonplace but you will see them everyday.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:48 PM
 
9,326 posts, read 22,018,067 times
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P.S Since the OP is in Switzerland:

Chrysler Switzerland:
Chrysler

GM Switzerland:
General Motors - GM Europe - GM in your Country - General Motors in Switzerland (http://www.gm.com/europe/gm-europe/switzerland/ - broken link)
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Old 01-06-2010, 10:25 PM
 
9,846 posts, read 22,675,687 times
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All the jeeps and other Chryslers you see in Europe are typically built at the Steyr plant in Austria.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:19 AM
 
22 posts, read 45,129 times
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I would like to add some comments. In America the cars are cheaper so a normal person can buy very interesting cars. Even a Corvette is relatively cheap. In Europe the Corvette is the cheapest supercar that you can buy. Cost less than 60.000€ (85.000$). What I can not understand is that European cars are cheaper in America than here. I know that some VW are technological less advanced on the American market. In America VW has a normally bigger engine so the price difference should not be so big. I do not know how it is with BMW an MB.

Regarding the quality of cars in Europe in this very moment the most reliable are BMW, MB, VW and Toyota but all depends from the model and year of production (source: ADAC - Ihr Partner in allen Fragen rund um die Mobilität. (Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobil-Club)). The urban myth is: The most reliable cars are German/Japanese then French and then Italians. Koreans are relatively good. And everybody knows that this myth is true. In this statistics there are no "true" American cars because they are so few here.

GM Europe and Ford Europe have a lot of models in EU and all are relatively good. But these cars are designed and made in Germany or UK or in other parts of Europe. Another urban myth (that is also true): if the car (model) is made directly in Germany it will be automatically better. For GM & Ford models this myth is absolutely true. The quality of these "not true" American cars is between the German/Japanese and the French.

Example: I am driving a GM Opel Vectra 1.9 turbo diesel, 125 bhp, 38 mpg (is like Saturn Aura). Now is 2 years old. Made in Germany. It has a good diesel engine but not an excellent one. Handling is not very good, like the French cars. This car was the cheapest in its class cheaper even than the French or Italian cars but is much more reliable than French & Italians. Ford Mondeo is more expensive a bit less than VW but I think is a bit better than GM. The best car (all together) in this class is VW Passat - but much more expensive (+30%).

We have only little experience with true American cars (made in USA) but the reliability was not outstanding and the end construction was not good. The end construction was like a Korean one. The price was not American but European - that means expensive. With the Corvette is a different story. In Europe is cheap, end construction is also bad but it is a supercar. And believe me a Ferrari will break down regularly. Ferrari is a Fiat. The only sports car to drive every day is a (normal) Porsche. But a Porsche is not a supercar and cost much more than a Corvette.

What I have seen in America on normal cars. End construction is not very good even in the "prestige" one. You have the cheap filling. The engines are on paper very powerful but in real life the power is not there. (I am talking about normal every day cars not supercars or muscle cars!). The automatic gearbox is very slow and is similar what was in use here during the 80's or early 90's. Handling and brakes are dangerous. I do not understand why the producers do not correct the handling I bet that half of accident in America occur because of bad handling of the car. They are not so spacious as they look like. But they are CHEAP to buy. A normal person can buy a good car for less than 20.000$, for 25-30.000$ you can buy a muscle car. And that is VERY good. If the reliability is similar to GM or Ford Europeans models you should be insane if you buy an European car in the States.
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