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Old 04-14-2010, 08:59 AM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,044,744 times
Reputation: 542

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
Thats not true either. Ever drive an Excursion? By far the heaviest SUV I have ever operated and it handled like a 7200lb brick. It did not lumber, dive around turns, float over road imperfections.... it was just an absolute solid machine. As far as GM goes I would say that 3/4 ton+ Suburbans/Yukons/Escalades also do not handle like modern day chuck wagons as people think they do.
It sure would be nice if you could follow a thread. They will not corner like a car, they are more prone to rollover, that is the nature of the beast.

I am tired of trying to spoon feed this to those that refuse or cannot follow logic.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:14 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,306 posts, read 12,240,162 times
Reputation: 2966
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
It sure would be nice if you could follow a thread. They will not corner like a car, they are more prone to rollover, that is the nature of the beast.

I am tired of trying to spoon feed this to those that refuse or cannot follow logic.
Wrong.

Snap the steering wheel in a GX460 and the front wheels go one way and the nose of the vehicle remains relatively unchanged. After the body finally catches up to the direction of the wheels and the sloppy pillow-like suspension the damage has already been done. The pig starts to dive and then tumbles into a roll.

A proper SUV with heavy duty truck suspension and most of the mass at frame level will just go into a skid. Rather than have the body levitate over the frame under quick direction change a true truck SUV stays together as a solid unit which makes a tumbling scenario far less likely.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Kansas
3,855 posts, read 13,279,043 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
I have to agree with the Expedition... I put those, Tahoes, Sequoias, etc. all in the same category. They are tall, floaty, bulky and were designed to give suspension performance of a car while weighing as much as a loaded pickup.
Tall and Bulky I'll agree with.

But not floaty. I just drove a new model Yukon over the weekend. It had a very firm ride in comparison to previous generations.

I used to own a 1998 Tahoe (4 years) and a 2002 Suburban (6 years). I know what floaty is. The 2007 and up full sized GM SUV's are very firm in comparison.
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Indiana
1,333 posts, read 3,230,245 times
Reputation: 976
SUV's are in fact more prone to rollovers then a car. Simple as that, no point in arguing.

BUT.....

This apparently is a Toyota/Lexus problem. I don't see where GM, Ford and Chrysler are having issues with the Escalade, Navigator, Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Yukon XL, Expedition, Explorer, Equinox, Acadia, Commander, Grand Cherokee and the list goes on.

Before anyone says something like "What about the Bronco II, it was a rollover death trap" or something along those lines let me tell you, nobody gives a s**t. This is 2010.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:49 AM
 
78,642 posts, read 60,823,449 times
Reputation: 49959
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepcynic View Post
It sure would be nice if you could follow a thread. They will not corner like a car, they are more prone to rollover, that is the nature of the beast.

I am tired of trying to spoon feed this to those that refuse or cannot follow logic.
Um, then why didn't other large top-heavy suv's get the same bad label?

You keep ignoring the fact that consumer reports recognizes that this can happen with all vehicles of that type and clearly stated that the GX was ESPECIALLY prone to it.

Bottom line: Consumer Reports found it's rollover risk unacceptable while other SUV's were not labeled as such.
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:57 PM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,961,764 times
Reputation: 2869
Now...just what will Toyota do with it ? really no fix for a design problem, more likely they will buy them all back...that will cost a bundle ! What will happen to the ones still on the road ? Can't get insurance, value tanks, while payments go on. Interesting events about to happen with Toyota and their loyal following, tis sad.
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:24 PM
 
22 posts, read 122,975 times
Reputation: 21
All of you are missing the point. The vehicle is actually responding as a well tuned sports car should. Go back and read the article. It says the vehicle may flip from the rear tire hitting a curb from oversteer that the stability system didn't "catch"

In any well tuned vehicle, a sudden lift of the throttle during a hard relatively high speed corner (freeway ramp) will result in oversteer. If the car does not do this, something is wrong with the suspension set up. So in my opinion Toyota has tuned the suspension of this SUV to handle like a sports car!!! Pretty impressive if you ask me! Why would we want to eliminate this correct handling set up???? Because most people do not know how to drive, have never been to driving training, and do not expose themselves to any type of upset training.

In my opinion it is rediculous that toyota is getting bad press for putting out a vehicle that exhibits correct handling characteristics.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:02 PM
 
1,628 posts, read 4,044,744 times
Reputation: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidtexplore View Post
Because most people do not know how to drive, have never been to driving training, and do not expose themselves to any type of upset training.
Oh, I get that point!

You are correct.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:20 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,961,764 times
Reputation: 2869
Some things change for the good , some for the worse. Toyota has a long history for building reliable vehicles, not necessarily fast sports cars... I love my FJ cruiser , no its not an F40 or a Real Land cruiser , but it does serve a purpose in that old grand tradition, and with some quite improved features.
The Lexus SUV does not have that identify, fact is from the naked eye...it looks to have a very narrow track for the body mass. Just my observation.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:22 AM
 
78,642 posts, read 60,823,449 times
Reputation: 49959
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidtexplore View Post
All of you are missing the point. The vehicle is actually responding as a well tuned sports car should. Go back and read the article. It says the vehicle may flip from the rear tire hitting a curb from oversteer that the stability system didn't "catch"

In any well tuned vehicle, a sudden lift of the throttle during a hard relatively high speed corner (freeway ramp) will result in oversteer. If the car does not do this, something is wrong with the suspension set up. So in my opinion Toyota has tuned the suspension of this SUV to handle like a sports car!!! Pretty impressive if you ask me! Why would we want to eliminate this correct handling set up???? Because most people do not know how to drive, have never been to driving training, and do not expose themselves to any type of upset training.

In my opinion it is rediculous that toyota is getting bad press for putting out a vehicle that exhibits correct handling characteristics.
....and the ramifications of error in that type of situation with a sportscar and a top heavy suv are the same?

You have to realize that the target audience for this vehicle are affluent soccer mom types carting kids around. Toyota would get their ass sued in the US every time one of them sent the thing cartwheeling down an embankment....that's just products liability here in the states.

There is a long history of manufacturers doing things like putting engine limiters, softer suspension....the list goes on and on because they sell the cars to the masses and not the top 5-10% drivers.

For the most part Toyota still gets solid reviews.

FYI- I got my "recall alert" for my 2008 Highlander (which I love) last week. It was essentially a warning that the floormat could get stuck on the accelerator if you do things like put them in upside down or stack several on top of each other, have garbage rolling around on the floor. LOL. Absorb that, a lot of morons in the US ready to blame others for their own idiocy.
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