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Old 04-07-2015, 08:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Hmmmmmm, I would think that answer might go like this:

"Long Haul flights are wonderful if there is a john on board, but if not, then short hauls are the way to go!"
Bombs over Kansas...
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xircal View Post
The situation in the Netherlands at least seems to differ. Pilots are permitted to fly a maximum 900 hours per annum which doesn't seem very much, but I suppose you have to take into account time spent during flight preparation.

Pilots have to undergo a medical every six months and should they fail that, then the "loss of licence insurance" kicks in which means that their salary will continued to be paid even if they won't be permitted to fly anymore. The airline is responsible for the cost of the policy.

Salaries appear to be fixed though with a mimimum quoted at €4,300 and a maximum €20,000 a month. There's no mention of non-salary payment if the pilot isn't actually flying. It would probably be unlawful in the Netherlands to employ pilots on that basis although I stand to correction on that point.
Wow! That's barely over half a year of a 40 hour a week job.
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Old 04-08-2015, 03:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
Wow! That's barely over half a year of a 40 hour a week job.
It doesn't seem much I know, but a pilot does a lot more than just flying the plane. Airline pilot: Job description | Prospects.ac.uk
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
Wow! That's barely over half a year of a 40 hour a week job.
Yeah, and since the airplanes fly themselves, it's like free money....... Don't tell anyone!
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Old 04-09-2015, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Morrisville, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
Wow! That's barely over half a year of a 40 hour a week job.
I assume their 900 hours is from push back to stop. All the rest of the time getting there, pre-flight, etc does not count against their hours for the year, so their total hours spent what most people would consider working is close to the typical 2080 hours if not more.
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Old 04-09-2015, 11:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Sherifftruman View Post
I assume their 900 hours is from push back to stop. All the rest of the time getting there, pre-flight, etc does not count against their hours for the year, so their total hours spent what most people would consider working is close to the typical 2080 hours if not more.
Yup. Most airlines pay by block time (or a derivative of block time), which is from pushback to arrival at the gate. The rest of the time it takes to get to that point is duty time, but is not always paid.

A few examples:


My last 3 day had 27 hours of duty and 18 hours of block time. It was a mix of short and longer haul stuff, pay was average, and only had one aircraft swap (swaps add to the duty time/workload and are universally loathed). We were on time all 3 days.

My next 3 day trip is 30 hours of duty, 22 hours of block (about 25 hours of pay). It is a mix of longer (3+ hours)/short haul, no scheduled swaps (which means at least 2 ) and pays very well.


Our minimum paying trips typically have around 24 hours of duty with 15-16 hours block.

Weather, MX delays etc almost always add to the duty time, but don't always add to the block time or pay, although, we have a duty rig to offset that a bit.

Wheelsup brought up another issue, which is TAFB. On a multi day trip, you are typically not at home at night. We do have turns (1day trips) in our lines, which are good if you live close to your domicile, but are the bane of the commuter.

Last edited by Tripower455; 04-09-2015 at 12:44 PM..
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Old 04-09-2015, 11:20 AM
 
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A typical 4 day trip is 75 hours away from base. Some are more some are less. Pay is around 20-22 hours depending on how good the trip is.

If you work an 8 hour job with a 0:30 min lunch, even including commute time (which shouldn't be included) of 0:45 each way, you're talking a total time away from home of around 50 hours for your 5 day work week.

While it might look like a good deal, your average line pilot will spend an entire additional day away from home vs. the typical 40 hour/week schedule of most folks. This doesn't include commuting up hours before or waiting around for hours after the trip finishes to get on a flight, having to come in the night prior, or having to come home the day after a trip.
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Old 04-09-2015, 07:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
While it might look like a good deal, your average line pilot will spend an entire additional day away from home vs. the typical 40 hour/week schedule of most folks. This doesn't include commuting up hours before or waiting around for hours after the trip finishes to get on a flight, having to come in the night prior, or having to come home the day after a trip.
Yep. Last year my total time away from home, including commute time to and from work (which as we know includes countless hours sitting in the airports; my commute is moderately difficult), was just under 4500 hours. Even someone working 60 hours a week would be home much more than I was. Of course I was paid for a mere fraction of that time.
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Old 04-12-2015, 12:34 PM
 
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I just finished 6 days of flying. I put my 3 day trips back to back (on purpose.... about the only plus to FAR 117) to reduce the commutes, which are 6 hours round trip, driving, from home to domicile and back. TAFB was 110 hours, while duty time was 54 hours and 36.5 hours of block. Then 6 hours of driving round trip.

The 110 hrs TAFB doesn't count the 14+ hours I spent in domicile between trips.
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Old 04-12-2015, 02:48 PM
 
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This will certainly be taken as a flippant retort, but you know.... you could always move to your assigned domicile and fix the problem right there. Even moving to within 3hr drive time from the domicile airport would be better option than having to commute by air. This of course is dependent on whether you're commuting to a living wage job or a McWage regional FO job. I'd be much less willing to put my family through commuting hell for a piddly 40K/yr. Of course, for some domiciles such as JFK/EWR/MIA et al, the cost of living and social mess is not at all compatible with a solvent home life, depending on dependents status and secondary household income.

I think it's rather telling that the majority of airline pilots (more than 50%) are in fact commuters. Turns out the densely populated concrete jungles that make up the majority of profitable departure/arrival points make horrible places to raise a family. Ironic.

As for me, I prefer short duration flights with as little time zone crossings as possible. Problem is that those domestic NBs tend to have higher legs per day compared to intl, which is in counter to QOL as I value it. A regional or even Southwestish ops tempo would get old quick for me. That said, I'd still pick domestic short haul over long haul. I've done 17 hour flights and it's not the one bit pleasant for me. Never again. I do about 4 hour legs max in my personal airplane (granted not pressurized and at low altitude) and I've found that's about my max tolerance level before it turns into drudgery.

Ah who are we kidding. The best bet is to sit reserve in a low utilization airline while assigned to a desirable domicile and get paid to pick up my kid from school and help around the house. Swinging gear and digitally fornicating an FMS for a living is overrated. Pay for no flying is where it's at for me
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