Why is Baltimore so segregated? (to live in, license, deal)

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by dclamb3

I don't have numbers, but I wouldn’t say there are more Latinos than Greeks in Greektown, yet (although, my view could be biased since I clearly know the Greeks better). Upper Fells Point and over into Highlandtown, absolutely. Aside from that, I can’t speak knowledgeably on the Latin culture you mention, since I have no background in it.

While that hasn’t been the case for my family or those in my community (second and third generation frequently marrying outside of our ethnic group, sometimes yes, often, no), I can’t speak for other families. I do imagine that what you say is true, for the most part, though regarding ethnics, as a whole.

I absolutely agree that we need each other. I think the biggest asset to social integration, at least in my experience, has been that generations that aren’t here fresh off the boat speak better English so they're actually able to ask anyone, not just their Greek friend that understands their language, to fix the screen.

Also, at least for Greeks, they are very community oriented. They’d much rather hire a neighbor to do something (no matter what nationality they are) than a stranger from a phone book. Being like that kept them segregated when they only spoke Greek, but now that newer generations are bilingual, it means more mixing with other cultures since those cultures now live next door and we can actually communicate with them!

Let's just hope that neighbor knows how to fix a screen, though.

Are you Greek? My wife is, her family is from a small group of islands near Asia Minor. Nearly all of the immigrants from that small group of islands ended up in the Pittsburgh and Eastern Ohio area, especially Warren, OH and McKeesport, PA.

Much like the Tarpon Springs Greeks are largely from the Dodecanese Islands.

What about Baltimore's Greeks? Do most of them hail from a certain region in Greece?

Sadly, I am a xeno, but I tell people I am Greek by marriage I have even learned to eat my food lukewarm and there are no icecubes to be found in my freezer!

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by dclamb3

Perhaps in areas like Silicon Valley there is more integration (I won't get into why that is ), but when I lived in SoCal and Seattle, those areas, in my experience, were as segregated as Baltimore. .

I don't agree about Seattle. It seemed far more integrated than Baltimore when I lived there in the mid 2000s.

[boreatwork]

Baltimore has too much of an underground underworld that makes up too much of the core city. You cant blame people for not wanting to live around that when they have options of living more comfortably and around similar race. Im sure in places like Pigtown where ppl mix bc they are in the same boat is more of an economic reason then race. Rich/ wealthy people dont want to live around where people are begging on every corner and at the same time working class folks dont want the well to do folks calling everybody "pookie" like in the Baltimore Sun comments section. Get the ignorance and mediocre attitude out of Baltimore and things will be light years better.

I live in a majority black neighborhood with about 2 white families. They walk around the neighborhood they garden and do whatever else white folks do bc nobody looks at them as white folks (thats obvious) rather as just neighbors. They acknowledge us and we acknowledge them like ordinary neighbors do. Theres no ignorance or suspicion going on.

[dclamb3]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Are you Greek? My wife is, her family is from a small group of islands near Asia Minor. Nearly all of the immigrants from that small group of islands ended up in the Pittsburgh and Eastern Ohio area, especially Warren, OH and McKeesport, PA.

Much like the Tarpon Springs Greeks are largely from the Dodecanese Islands.

What about Baltimore's Greeks? Do most of them hail from a certain region in Greece?

Sadly, I am a xeno, but I tell people I am Greek by marriage I have even learned to eat my food lukewarm and there are no icecubes to be found in my freezer!

I am! While I was born here, my family is from the island of Kos, and most of them still live there.

Actually, the Greeks in Baltimore are pretty much from one island or another, although, considering Greece has thousands of islands, that's not surprising.

You absolutely are Greek by marriage As just one example... when I was growing up, we had an African American man that attended our Greek Orthodox church. No one thought of him as anything less than Greek. He was there with us every Sunday, went to every Greek social function. He was Greek in our book.

To me (and most others I know), it's not about where you were born, or the color of your skin (things you can't control), but about the customs you were raised with and the life you live by that are important. He felt a connection with our culture, and we happily welcomed and loved him.

[dclamb3]

Originally Posted by boreatwork

Baltimore has too much of an underground underworld that makes up too much of the core city. You cant blame people for not wanting to live around that when they have options of living more comfortably and around similar race. Im sure in places like Pigtown where ppl mix bc they are in the same boat is more of an economic reason then race. Rich/ wealthy people dont want to live around where people are begging on every corner and at the same time working class folks dont want the well to do folks calling everybody "pookie" like in the Baltimore Sun comments section. Get the ignorance and mediocre attitude out of Baltimore and things will be light years better.

I live in a majority black neighborhood with about 2 white families. They walk around the neighborhood they garden and do whatever else white folks do bc nobody looks at them as white folks (thats obvious) rather as just neighbors. They acknowledge us and we acknowledge them like ordinary neighbors do. Theres no ignorance or suspicion going on.

Exactly.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by boreatwork

Get the ignorance and mediocre attitude out of Baltimore and things will be light years better.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by boreatwork

I live in a majority black neighborhood with about 2 white families. They walk around the neighborhood they garden and do whatever else white folks do bc nobody looks at them as white folks (thats obvious) rather as just neighbors. They acknowledge us and we acknowledge them like ordinary neighbors do. Theres no ignorance or suspicion going on.

Are we neighbors?

[boreatwork]

Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown

Agreed.



Are we neighbors?

Have you not watched Mr Rogers?

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by dclamb3

I am! While I was born here, my family is from the island of Kos, and most of them still live there.

Actually, the Greeks in Baltimore are pretty much from one island or another, although, considering Greece has thousands of islands, that's not surprising.

You absolutely are Greek by marriage As just one example... when I was growing up, we had an African American man that attended our Greek Orthodox church. No one thought of him as anything less than Greek. He was there with us every Sunday, went to every Greek social function. He was Greek in our book.

To me (and most others I know), it's not about where you were born, or the color of your skin (things you can't control), but about the customs you were raised with and the life you live by that are important. He felt a connection with our culture, and we happily welcomed and loved him.

That makes sense. The islands can only support so many residents, and with the high birthrates of the past, many residents had to leave for either Athens or overseas. At least that is the story of my wife's ancestors.

Her dad's grandparents moved here from Fourni in the early 20th century, when their island was still part of the Ottoman Empire. All of the 1st generations kids except two ended up marrying other Greeks, but only my wife's grandmother married another descendant of Fourni. The next generation brought in the xenos. I believe only my father-in-law and maybe one or two of his first cousins married other Greeks, and only my father-in-law married another Fournitiki.

She was born on the island and came over in the 1970s. That means 1/2 of my wife's family including grandparents, aunts, uncles, 1st cousins still live in Greece. My wife was lucky enough to keep the language so she can communicate with them. We are trying to make sure our kids learn Greek too, but it is hard up here in Cumberland without an Orthodox Church or Greek School. We have to drive to Frederick or Winchester to attend church. My wife works it in when she can, but without me speaking Greek, it is hard to get a conversation going!

My wife laments the fact that her island and their very unique way of life is changing. Most of her 1st cousins moved to the mainland, and married outside the island, like she did. I try to comfort her by explaining that the Greeks are a diasporic people, and that moving around the world and marrying into other groups didn't weaken the Greek people in the past, and probably won't in the future. That is why we try to make sure our kids know about their Greek roots, are members of the Orthodox Church, and hopefully pick up some of the language.

BTW, my in-laws speak very highly of Kos. There is a big medieval castle there, right?

[dclamb3]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

That makes sense. The islands can only support so many residents, and with the high birthrates of the past, many residents had to leave for either Athens or overseas. At least that is the story of my wife's ancestors.

Her dad's grandparents moved here from Fourni in the early 20th century, when their island was still part of the Ottoman Empire. All of the 1st generations kids except two ended up marrying other Greeks, but only my wife's grandmother married another descendant of Fourni. The next generation brought in the xenos. I believe only my father-in-law and maybe one or two of his first cousins married other Greeks, and only my father-in-law married another Fournitiki.

She was born on the island and came over in the 1970s. That means 1/2 of my wife's family including grandparents, aunts, uncles, 1st cousins still live in Greece. My wife was lucky enough to keep the language so she can communicate with them. We are trying to make sure our kids learn Greek too, but it is hard up here in Cumberland without an Orthodox Church or Greek School. We have to drive to Frederick or Winchester to attend church. My wife works it in when she can, but without me speaking Greek, it is hard to get a conversation going!

My wife laments the fact that her island and their very unique way of life is changing. Most of her 1st cousins moved to the mainland, and married outside the island, like she did. I try to comfort her by explaining that the Greeks are a diasporic people, and that moving around the world and marrying into other groups didn't weaken the Greek people in the past, and probably won't in the future. That is why we try to make sure our kids know about their Greek roots, are members of the Orthodox Church, and hopefully pick up some of the language.

BTW, my in-laws speak very highly of Kos. There is a big medieval castle there, right?

There sure is. The Neratzia Castle.

DMing you now, so I don't get in trouble for going off topic.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by boreatwork

Have you not watched Mr Rogers?

I wasn't being snyde, I was being serious. Your description sounds what mine would be from the other side as one of a handful of white families on a mostly black street. We get along with our neighbors and yeah, we garden and probably a bunch of other stuff off of the "stuff white people like" blog.