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When I first saw the headline, I thought this thread would be about some vacant but redevelopable land overlooking Druid Hill Park. The land, as I recall, belongs to the HUD and the city originally planned to find a private developer and build condominiums there. I don't know what the hangup is -- probably something to do with Thompson vs. HUD, the landmark class-action suit that now seems to tie nearly every redevelopment proposals in courts.
The lots in question used to have signs saying they were available. And the city's preference was for expensive condos. I think this kind of diversity is direly needed in Reservoir Hill. Many people would consider living there but are downsizers not interested in a big house. A nice, secure apartment would do.
When I drive around Reservoir Hill, I am struck by how much has happened in recent years, and how much needs to be done. Some things I see don't make sense. For instance, I remember visiting a bunch on rowhouses on Lake Drive some 10 years ago. A PG contractor was turning them into rentals. When I heard the proposed rent, I couldn't believe how high it was.
Anyway, after partial reconstruction, those three or four houses on Lake Drive are skeletons. They have walls but nothing inside (that is observable from Lake Drive). Clearly something happened. The only probabilities I can think of are these: Was the contractor trying to do the job without permits and got burned? Is there something so structurally wrong about the buildings they had to be stripped down.
The point is that when the market is strong, you won't see those kinds of bizarre incidents because empty property is too valuable.
Much though I love Reservoir Hill, I don't think the pace renewals will soon regain the pre-crash level. That boom was largely fueled by Washingtonians. I don't see them coming back in numbers.
But didn't some of the current "white neighborhoods" used to be "black neighborhoods"?
Not really, Canton, Federal Hill, Locust Point, Hampden, Fells used to be all white, if anything they are more diverse now. Blue Collar white neighborhoods are being replaced by young professionals crowds.
Some of the areas North of Canton and Fells have probably become more white... Like Upper Fells, Patterson Park, and the Hopkins area.
I'm excited for the next 10 years in Baltimore, because so much was accomplished in the last 10 years. The above mentioned neighborhoods have completely turned around, plus Harbor East has shot out of the ground, and many colleges and institutions have grown like crazy.
Areas like Canton and Federal Hill were easy to renovate because there was never much violent crime and very little gov't housing. Plus both were right on I95.
The next challenges is seeing neighborhoods like PigTown, Reservoir Hill, Remington, Hollins Market, Patterson Park North, Westport, the Middle Branch, and more reach their potential. With as much as happened in the last 10 years, I can't wait to see this place in 10 more.
Not really, Canton, Federal Hill, Locust Point, Hampden, Fells used to be all white, if anything they are more diverse now. Blue Collar white neighborhoods are being replaced by young professionals crowds.
Some of the areas North of Canton and Fells have probably become more white... Like Upper Fells, Patterson Park, and the Hopkins area.
I'm excited for the next 10 years in Baltimore, because so much was accomplished in the last 10 years. The above mentioned neighborhoods have completely turned around, plus Harbor East has shot out of the ground, and many colleges and institutions have grown like crazy.
Areas like Canton and Federal Hill were easy to renovate because there was never much violent crime and very little gov't housing. Plus both were right on I95.
The next challenges is seeing neighborhoods like PigTown, Reservoir Hill, Remington, Hollins Market, Patterson Park North, Westport, the Middle Branch, and more reach their potential. With as much as happened in the last 10 years, I can't wait to see this place in 10 more.
Yeah.. its probably mostly the other way around with predominately "white" neighborhoods becoming predominately "black" more so up until the 1960s maybe mid 70s.. Now I believe those transitions have stabalized (or atleast not as dramatic shifts in population/race like the prior era) and you have more "diverse" neighborhoods with a steady flow in/out of new residents.. atleast in the more desirable neighborhoods in the City.
Yeah.. its probably mostly the other way around with predominately "white" neighborhoods becoming predominately "black" more so up until the 1960s maybe mid 70s.. Now I believe those transitions have stabalized (or atleast not as dramatic shifts in population/race like the prior era) and you have more "diverse" neighborhoods with a steady flow in/out of new residents.. atleast in the more desirable neighborhoods in the City.
you guys are exactly right, the city needs to invest in the youth and the poor community because the city cant move forward and will continue to be dragged down by those whom have nearly no opportunities to improve their situation. working class people make up a huge percentage of the population of this city. all of the incentives and perks they offer the corporations and developers, they should devote the same energy towards the poverty stricken areas, i believe it will pay huge dividends for the city. when people feel they have a stake and an investment in the city then the whole city will improve and we can move forward. right now most just feel like there are two worlds one for those who have money and one for those who dont.
Lots of things to reply to so I'll just put them in one post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by (-)
why have city leaders not made a significant push to develop this area? i know that individual investors have tried to but for some odd reason the city has not taken any sort of effort, at least that i can recall, to really get the ball rolling in the area with commercial and structural development or initiatives.
Not to pick on you solely but I always love how "investors" think that every piece of progress is determined by their actions. One of Res Hill's biggest problems has been ignorant investors and dumb money that came in in the last decade and created Home Depot rehabs with nonexistent property management or tenant selection. And I guess you're new to the area because "city leaders" were significant in hyping up the area without really monitoring or directing what has happening, and some of the results were not good. Of course quite a bit has changed for the better and the electeds deserve some credit. I can hardly fault them for not creating a commercial district as the market showed next to no interest. I do wish there was greater vision in terms of creating connections to the park and to Penn North metro station (which would take a concerted push in areas to the west). Many of the bigger mistakes were made in decades past as more and more low-income housing was put into a neighborhood that was already flush with it, and latter-year electeds usually share blame for those decisions with old community members who pushed for it. Both are out of the picture now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands
The city had the opportunity to close down and redevelop Madison North by yanking its multifamily permit thus causing the complete to be shuttered. I think they have since backed off.. (a mistake) so if no substantial improvements are made at this complex.. it will continue to drag on the area.
Actually it's just in an appeal process where the owner gets to challenge HUD's decision to terminate their subsidy contract. The city isn't really involved yet in forced actions, though they should be soon. In a sense, everything is moving and there's due process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLynch10
The housing authority has botched opportunity after opportunity there. A big reason this city needs fresh faces in leadership. Res Hill hasn't developed as fast as the Fed Hills and Cantons because the violent crime present is a hard obstacle the overcome and many of the houses are mansions, which are expensive to rehab and maintain.
No, violent crime isn't really the issue, unless you live at Madison Park North. It's about drug dealing, and some general quality of life issues from having untamed/unraised children around. Granted those can be deterrents to some good people who might otherwise move in, but let's be clear. Also there is a difference between the Housing Authority of Baltimore City and the Housing and Community Development department - they're nominally working together but they both make their owns kinds of mistakes. HABC is forced to keep an overly large portfolio of low-income units and "replaced" many in Res Hill, but they also don't monitor what they have (e.g. MPN). Lack of money is one problem, lack of oversight another. HCD has done a great number of things, again without full oversight or follow-through. Releasing the Druid Park Lake Drive RFP without having title that would allow redevelopment was a giant blunder. Callow Ave is a disgrace. SCOPE had mixed results, good to start then worse as the real estate agents took over. It's a mixed grade but you could never call the neighborhood "ignored."
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoregrimey
the one thing i dont like is that the city owns numerous vacant properties in the neighborhood and has left them sitting to rot, the city traditionally does not invest heavily in black neighborhoods at all, the city usually pushes investors to develop in areas they want to see changed like patterson park or canton, but there are many very active residents of reservoir hill whom are putting in the sweat equity to help keep the neighborhood headed in the right direction
To be fair the city doesn't own that many vacant buildings in Res Hill, it more has vacant land in the middle and by the park (which is still in development limbo). There's been next to no oversight on the vacant buildings it used to own (and sold to a developer) on Callow Ave, and that's a problem. To say they don't invest in black neighborhoods is nonsense and inflammatory. Basically every major initiative Baltimore Housing does is in a black neighborhood, and will be by virtue of what properties they own or could acquire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils
I have a feeling it's still going to take quite a few years before you see any noticeable improvement.
A feeling? But there've already been very noticeable improvements here. Every single year. Well, 2008 was pretty stagnant (real estate crash and all). But the changes are there if you talk to most any (non-drug-dealing) resident. Adding a commercial component or greater level of services you can walk to will take time. If MPN gets redeveloped it could take a decade. Vuirtually it's not going to be Canton any time soon, but there are lots of great reasons to live here.
When I first saw the headline, I thought this thread would be about some vacant but redevelopable land overlooking Druid Hill Park. The land, as I recall, belongs to the HUD and the city originally planned to find a private developer and build condominiums there. I don't know what the hangup is -- probably something to do with Thompson vs. HUD, the landmark class-action suit that now seems to tie nearly every redevelopment proposals in courts.
The lots in question used to have signs saying they were available. And the city's preference was for expensive condos. I think this kind of diversity is direly needed in Reservoir Hill. Many people would consider living there but are downsizers not interested in a big house. A nice, secure apartment would do.
When I drive around Reservoir Hill, I am struck by how much has happened in recent years, and how much needs to be done. Some things I see don't make sense. For instance, I remember visiting a bunch on rowhouses on Lake Drive some 10 years ago. A PG contractor was turning them into rentals. When I heard the proposed rent, I couldn't believe how high it was.
Anyway, after partial reconstruction, those three or four houses on Lake Drive are skeletons. They have walls but nothing inside (that is observable from Lake Drive). Clearly something happened. The only probabilities I can think of are these: Was the contractor trying to do the job without permits and got burned? Is there something so structurally wrong about the buildings they had to be stripped down.
The point is that when the market is strong, you won't see those kinds of bizarre incidents because empty property is too valuable.
Much though I love Reservoir Hill, I don't think the pace renewals will soon regain the pre-crash level. That boom was largely fueled by Washingtonians. I don't see them coming back in numbers.
Thompson isn't the issue with Druid Park Lake Drive, it's the development riders HUD put in place on the property when they gave it to the city. If the land was to be built with for sale units then the owners of those units would never be allowed to realize any appreciation in equity. And basically nobody buys a house in this city with that condition (maybe a few do in NYC if the buy-in price is low). It's not clear if the city didn't do the due diligence to realize this before they offered it to developers (!) or if they just thought they could convince the Bush II HUD to extinguish the riders in time. In any case the otherwise free market Bushies showed no interest in helping out the city/neighborhood and I'm not sure why the Obama HUD hasn't released these conditions yet. The developer who was selected wasn't the biggest problem, though they've since botched plenty of other stuff including the Middle Branch and probably are out of the picture.
As for the other properties next to these lots on DPLD - I think a lot of that centers around good old Vito Simone, he of the fraud lawsuits and ex-GBBR Presidency. They could have been redone at any time, profitably, but Vito and others chose to either time the market or wait for other developments (DPLD condos) to happen, and the city didn't do anything to stop that kind of speculation. And while he was sitting on some valuable property in a real estate bubble, why not borrow against it and buy more? Anyways, you may know the story from before my time but it ultimately is the Reservoir Hill story - speculation.
Obviously the pace of good investment rehab is going to be slow with prices down where they are. But the positives are that some great places are getting gobbled up by legitimate homeowners now since lending is so dried up for investors. They often have to be cash deals or move quickly because of foreclosure / short sale, but we are seeing part of the influx of owner-occupants we need. While the giant wave of NYC and Washington dumb money won't be repeated, I do still sense a lot of questionable investors that would jump in at these low prices if only they could get loans. And I'm left hoping that lending for them doesn't loosen up too much and that the would-be homeowners go through Healthy Neighborhoods where they can get phenomenal rates and free money.
you guys are exactly right, the city needs to invest in the youth and the poor community because the city cant move forward and will continue to be dragged down by those whom have nearly no opportunities to improve their situation. working class people make up a huge percentage of the population of this city. all of the incentives and perks they offer the corporations and developers, they should devote the same energy towards the poverty stricken areas, i believe it will pay huge dividends for the city. when people feel they have a stake and an investment in the city then the whole city will improve and we can move forward. right now most just feel like there are two worlds one for those who have money and one for those who dont.
The city does invest in the youth and poor people already. The solutions you seek will never be becase of the government but cultural change.
The city does invest in the youth and poor people already. The solutions you seek will never be becase of the government but cultural change.
actually they dont, they cut the number of summer jobs from about 9,000 to about 4000...the 9000 figure is not nearly enough to begin with, they closed many of the rec centers, and the existing centers are minimally funded, they closed many community pools, the solution they came up with for the youth was a curfew...i dont know that i want police concentrating on curfew when we have so many violent offenders
remstone
"To be fair the city doesn't own that many vacant buildings in Res Hill, it more has vacant land in the middle and by the park (which is still in development limbo). There's been next to no oversight on the vacant buildings it used to own (and sold to a developer) on Callow Ave, and that's a problem. To say they don't invest in black neighborhoods is nonsense and inflammatory. Basically every major initiative Baltimore Housing does is in a black neighborhood, and will be by virtue of what properties they own or could acquire."
actually the city owns many vacant buildings in the neighborhood i actually live next to one and they dont do any upkeep on it, i actually have to cut the grass and clean around the house...the major initiatives in black neighborhoods are housing projects and section 8 i dont think that really counts, the city instead of developing around the current residents of a black neighborhood they will actually move the residents out and then fix up the place and bring new residents in which i dont believe is fair to the many long time law abiding residents of the neighorhood
The city - even if you include HABC, which you shouldn't - owns perhaps 10 vacant buildings in Res Hill. Obviously it sucks if you live next to one and are dealing with it, but in the scheme of ~150 vacants overall I'd say "not that many" is an accurate description.
If you look at what neighborhoods HCD has targeted with RFPs in the last several years, and I'm not talking about subsidized housing, it's clear there is no bias against black neighborhoods. Reservoir Hill, Upton, Johnston Square, Upper Broadway, etc etc. Now they haven't worked all that well because variously the market doesn't respond, the developers chosen don't complete projects, the predevelopment process takes too long, the neighborhoods targeted were too far gone, etc. But there were certainly attempts, probably even to the point of over-reaching. If you include neighborhood turnaround attempts that change the income mix and maybe remove some subsidized housing - and you should include these - then the results are still not there, but they're definitely in black neighborhoods. EBDI, Poppleton, Uplands, Barclay. And if you're talking about outright removing public housing units, that happened with HOPE VI and the demolition of high rises, and that happened in ... well I think you can figure it out.
Honestly it sounds like you're complaining both that subsidized housing got put in black neighborhoods, and complaining if it's now coming out. Or is there some other "they" you're referring to getting moved around? Progress gets made in these neighborhoods without moving anyone out, because there are so many vacant houses. Recent white folks coming in to Res Hill (concurrent with lots of middle class black folks coming in) weren't displacing anybody. I agree the city shouldn't be so eager to claim "success" with a redevelopment of existing low-income housing (like the Pennrose units) but those are often the stabilization that leads to the market coming in.
The biggest part of turnaround is going to be the city adding more good residents with choices and that means attracting them from the suburbs they're in now or keeping the ones who would move out to the suburbs. Not to say that some "people development" strategy won't have a place but you're being very vague on what that is or how to pay for it, and I don't think you have many examples of how it's led to the turnarounds you'd like to see.
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The market decides
